James and all, Maybe I missed something. The last topic in sequence that I remember discussing was E. I don't recall coming to a consensus on F. I don't recall signing off on G, H or I at all. I don't think that G or H is controversial, but I may be. If we are going on to J, could you at least summarize what was decided about F (submission elements/constituents), G (submitting entries/points of contact), H (return of submissions) and I (copyright)? As to judging... First detail is a potential cost item. Will judges be paid an honorarium? Second is over the judging criteria and this is potentially a big hangup. Isn't this where we need to talk about divisions in the competition? This could be amateur/professional (divided because the professional would have financial motivation to get the recognition from an award) or based on tank size (because different sizes require different approaches). This could even be divided by age, but I think that's a bad idea. I would like to see the judging criteria spelled out rather precisely, so that an emphasis is formally placed on artistry, rather than on gardening or technology. In particular, given a choice between a tank with a concept and layout that demostrates great artistry but which contains a few less-than-perfectly healthy plants, and a tank with a mundane concept and beautiful, robust plants I think the former (artistic) should win. Also, the quality of the photography should be explicitly factored out of the judging to the extent it's at all possible. Finally, on selection of judges. I have no specific choices for judges, and I'm not sure that we need to worry about that now (except to the extent that it might alter costs). I do have some preferences about the qualifications for judges. I'm have no problem with judges who don't speak English. There is an obvious communication problem, but if we have a non-English-speaking judge who reads English or who is interested in judging and has an interpreter to handle the task then we shouldn't miss any opportunity to broaden the point of view of the judging panel. Since the contest is supposed to stress artistry (I think that was agreed on) we need a judging panel that includes *artists*. Scientists, editors and accomplished hobbyists (e.g. Kasselman) may be very accomplished aquarium keepers, but not artists. I would prefer having an art professor with no background in aquarium keeping over an aquarist with no skill or background in art. Roger Miller ------------------ To unsubscribe from this list, e-mail majordomo@aquatic-gardeners.org with "unsubscribe aga-contest" in the body of the message. To subscribe to the digest version, add "subscribe aga-contest-digest" in the same message. Old messages are available at http://lists.thekrib.com/aga-contest