Re: Unmoderating the list

[Erik Olson <erik@thekrib.com>]

Hi Dennis, Karen, et. al.,

Just to add a few more (technical) notes to the excellent points Karen
made...

The AGA itself is pretty visible on the web.  If you type in "Aquatic 
Gardeners Association", it comes up without fail.  This is because lots of 
people link to the AGA home page; they find it useful.

The AGA e-mail list *is* virtually invisible, because it's small.  Nobody
has linked to it because they haven't seen any value yet.  But that's the
way these things go.  First there must be some value, then people who find
it useful start to link to it, then it gets popular on search engines.  
The best thing one can do with a list of this type is not to compete with 
the APD, but find a way to make it *different*.

There is no link directly from www.thekrib.com to the list because I try
to keep www.thekrib.com (the aforementioned "disorganized and outdated"  
site, which you correctly note I have *zero* time or interest in trying to
change, especially with my current schedule) deliberately separate from
the other sites I maintain as part of the thekrib.com domain, i.e.,
lists.thekrib.com, which houses a number of e-mail list archives, and
faq.thekrib.com, which houses the Aquaria FAQ... just as
www.aquatic-gardeners.org is kept separate from
showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org.  There shouldn't be super close ties 
between sites.

I would hope that www.aquatic-gardeners.org is presented in an up-to-date 
manner.

I wonder if part of your issue stems from the mailing list not being
"aga-member@aquatic-gardeners.org".  [Not that this should really matter
-- the APD, for instance, is part of actwin.com, which has a few sparse
pages, none of which are related to aquatic gardening.  It is popular on
search engines because lots and lots of people have linked to the APD page
over the past 6 years.] Originally this was the case, that the mailing
lists I housed were referred to by their domain name,
"aga-member@aquatic-gardeners.org", "gsas-member@gsas.org", etc.  But a
technical problem with housing multiple domains on the same physical
computer causes the address to change to @thekrib.com as mail gets resent,
inducing multiple replies and such if people weren't careful.  So several
years ago I converted all the mailing lists to @thekrib.com to avoid this
problem.  At some point in the future, I would like to fix this, but this 
will require a second machine to play with so that the live e-mail doesn't 
get disturbed.

TAG the magazine actually HAS referenced the list a few times, most 
recently in the January issue (Paul Sears' article, I beleive).  Good 
point, though, this is one way it could improve visibility.

  - Erik

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Karen Randall wrote:

> > Not that it will matter an iota, I think, but I'm going to withdraw
> > as moderator for the AGA list. As you may remember, I only
> > volunteered in an effort to help grow the list. Since that time I
> > have learned a few things as well as getting a better picture of the
> > current landscape. You may also remember my background, which is
> > business oriented in the computer press. My experience has been
> > totally devoted to acquiring market share and drive subscriptions.
> > With that in mind, I ask you to understand this is how I arrived at
> > my perspective.
> >
> > The AGA list is virtually invisible on the web. In fact, a Google
> > search can find only one instance of it being quoted, and that on
> > the APD list. thekrib hosts the list, but has no link or reference
> > to it that I can find. All thekrib does in point back to the AGA.
> > The TAG magazine makes no reference to the list, and in fact has a
> > column devoted to reprising messages from the APD.
> >
> > Then there is the 'institution' or the current 'establishment', if
> > you will, on the APD. I have issues with some of the cretins, er,
> > hobbyists, on that list and looked forward to building a different
> > community. One that wasn't so closed and.. well, cliquish..  Given
> > the particular mindset there, building a good community to compete
> > with them will take far more time and effort than I can spare on a
> > voluntary basis. Of course, it would also be impossible without
> > addressing the issues above.
> >
> > I also have serious problems with thekrib, which is presented in a
> > disorganized and outdated manner.  Not that I mean to criticize Erik
> > in any way. He deserves enormous credit and congratulations for what
> > he has achieved there. But my background has been about providing
> > information in a coherent, up-to-date, and easy to find fashion. My
> > salary depended upon having an enviroment that was favored over the
> > cometition's. My  FAQ, White Paper, Resource, etc. areas were
> > totally different both in presentation and style. Frankly, I can't
> > imagine how anyone can find the exact info they are looking for ther
> > e when the only thing they can do is scroll through a screen full of
> > old newsgroup messages..  I was thinking about seeing whether you
> > guys might be interested in updating..  but, again, the scope of the
> > work is just too great and time-consuming on a volunteer basis.
> >
> > Finally, I was somewhat disturbed by a comment from another member.
> > I was told that the AGA only wants to have enough subscribers to
> > publish the TAG in full color. The implication being that there is
> > no interest in growth or increasing the subscription base
> > particularly. I have no idea concerning the validity of the remark,
> > but just the fact that it exists and is a perception among the
> > community is enough for me.
> >
> > So, you can see given my perspective and background I am ill-suited
> > as a moderator for you. And, as I said, just as well probably.
> > Traffic has subsided and nothing I seem to say provokes any comment.
> > Virtually everyone who chirped up last month has disappeared again.
> > I suspect you need one of those 'good old boys' from the APD to keep
> > things going.  Anyway, thanks for the opportunity and good luck to
> > the AGA and the list. I'll surely be lurking there and if I have any
> > questions or comments to make, I'm sure to post them to the AGA list
> > first, for whatever that's worth.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> 
> 
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-- 
Erik Olson
erik at thekrib dot com

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