Re: Judging the AGA aquascaping contest.

["Karen Randall" <krandall@rdrcpa.biz>]

Thanks, Steve!

Karen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve" <steve_wilsonii@fishpalace.org>
To: "Karen Randall" <krandall@rdrcpa.biz>; "AGA Steering Committee"
<aga-sc@thekrib.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: Judging the AGA aquascaping contest.


> Karen,
> I would love to see the annual AGA convention come to Boston or at least
New
> England. There are many plant enthusiests in the Boston area and I am sure
> that the AGA could have yet another spike in New England memberships if
that
> were to be the case. I have spent a fair amount of time helping to expand
> the planted aquarium hobby by offering information and plants to a local
> online message board as well as converting a couple of fish tanks at a
local
> nursing home from plastic to live plants. I also have written the local
> Manchester, NH news paper in response to an article which stated that
> Hydrilla was infesting NH and ME lakes and the causes for this is
hobbiests
> bringing thier tanks to lakes to dump them out, and waterfowl. Of course
> they did not go into how the Canada Geese eat hydrilla tubers from Florida
> waterways and are not usually digested and then deposited along thier
> migration route. Which since I dont know of any Hydrilla enthusiests seems
> to be the most likely situation. I sure know that I am not going to carry
> even a ten gallon tank anywhere due to the weight. Of course my response
was
> never printed and it is articles like that which taint the general
public's
> view on aquatic horticulture.
> I would really love to be an active member of the AGA and actually help to
> accomplish something besides reading TAG. Ed Pecord and Erik can
definately
> count on my active participation. I will save this message and touch base
> again in December or so. If someting comes up, dont hesitate to drop me an
> email.
> Steve
>
>
>
> From: "Karen Randall" <krandall@rdrcpa.biz>
> To: "AGA Steering Committee" <aga-sc@thekrib.com>; "Steve"
> <steve_wilsonii@fishpalace.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Judging the AGA aquascaping contest.
>
>
> > Hi Steve,
> >
> > >> I would love to help in any way I can. I am not too concerned with
> > entering the contest, due mainly to the fact that my tank is never
ready.
> <<
> >
> > Ahhh, I know that feeling.<g>  The open house last year was actually
great
> > for me because it gave me a deadline I couldn't get out of to get my
tanks
> > in some kind of order.  You can say, "I'm not ready" and just decide not
> to
> > enter a contest, but when you've invited a whole bunch of people into
your
> > home to see your tanks, you really have no choice but to follow
> through.<g>
> >
> > >> I am somewhat of a perfectionist with my aquascape and although I
think
> > it looks great,..<<
> >
> > My experience is that EVERYONE thinks their tanks could look better.<g>
> >
> > >> As a matter of fact I pulled out a 22 stem stand of Limnophilia
> > sessiliflora this morning and replaced it with some Eichhornia
> diversifolia
> > that I aquired from Uncle Ned's about two weeks ago. They were sorry
> looking
> > things, and the three stems I got are now ten remarkably fast growing
> > beautiful plants.<<
> >
> > Yeah, that came from me.  Unfortunately, it's a plant that Ned kills
very
> > quickly if someone doesn't buy it first.  The good thing is that, as
> you've
> > found, under good conditions, it's not at all a difficult plant.
> >
> > >> As a matter of fact I got some Marsilea from you in February that
> > completely filled in and took over my 75 gallon tank and I ended up
having
> > to remove most of it because it was choking other plants.<<
> >
> > A trick with the Marsilea is to cut it into 1-2 node sections, and plant
> > them each separately. This seems to stunt the growth for quite a while,
> > allowing it to fill in and make quaite a nice "lawn".  But, as with most
> > other "lawn" plants, eventually it dose get overgrown, and needs to be
> > ripped out and restarted.
> >
> > >> Now let me get back on track here... <<
> >
> > (ehem) me too.<g>
> >
> > >> Helping Erik out with the contest is something I would really love to
> do.
> > I live, sleep, and breath this remarkable hobby and well I think my own
> > family thinks that I am somewhat of a freak because of it. <<
> >
> > Awesome!  I think Erik usually needs a little down-time between
contests,
> > but I'm sure he'll be looking you up when he gets started again.
> >
> > >>I would not be limited to just the contest either, I would be willing
to
> > contribute my time and efforts to the AGA on any level possible. My
> current
> > financial situation is regretably such that I am not able to attend this
> > years convention, and I will not be able to make any financial
> contributions
> > at this time. My time and "talents" are however at the AGA's disposal,
> which
> > I am assuming is acceptable. Please let me know if there is anything I
can
> > do to help or participate actively in the AGA.<<
> >
> > Even better!  I'm sure we'll be able to find a job or two for you.  Just
> off
> > the top of my head, seeing as you are here in the Boston area, Ed Pecord
> is
> > trying to drum up a core group of people to bring the AGA convention to
> > Boston (or at least New England) in 2004 or 2005.  I'm sure he'd LOVE to
> > have someone help him with that, and then youw wouldn't need to travel
to
> > the convention!
> >
> > I'm sure there are other things we could use help with too, but at the
> > moment, we're all trying to tie up loose ends for the convention.  Send
us
> > another e-mail after the convention dust has settled, and we'll
brainstorm
> > where/how we can best use your talents and enthusiasm!
> >
> > Thanks for stepping forward!
> >
> > Karen
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Karen Randall
> > To: Steve ; Erik Olson
> > Cc: AGA Steering Committee
> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: Judging the AGA aquascaping contest.
> >
> >
> > You are entirely welcome!  As you might guess, sometimes the
"management"
> of
> > a volunteer organization like this works in a bit of a vacuum.  It is
> great
> > when someone takes the time to make thoughtful criticism of a program.
It
> > give us some input in terms of making future decisions.
> >
> > Another thought that I have is that since you seem interested in the
> > contest, perhaps you would like to be part of making it even better in
the
> > future!  Erik has been the driving force behind the contest since the
> second
> > year, and did a huge amount of the work even the first year.  I am sure
> that
> > he would welcome a willing pair of hands!  (Incidentally, helping with
the
> > contest does NOT preclude you from entering the contest... the entries
all
> > go to the judges with no identification, so there is no conflict of
> > interest)
> >
> > Karen
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Steve
> > To: Karen Randall ; Erik Olson
> > Cc: AGA Steering Committee
> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:25 AM
> > Subject: Re: Judging the AGA aquascaping contest.
> >
> >
> > Thank you both for your response to my letter. Admittedly I was home
with
> a
> > fever yesterday, and being that it was almost a year ago that I made my
> own
> > observations, there was no urgencey on my part to convey my point of
view.
> I
> > do want you all to know that I appreciate all that the AGA does to
promote
> > the hobby, and I understand and agree with every point the two of you
> made.
> > I do appreciate the length and detail that your response went into and
it
> > shows that you did understand what I was trying to say. I think the
> contest
> > is a great forum for aquatic gardeners to proudly show their tanks, and
> > having five judges this year will definately contribute to the overall
> > substance of the contest. I can not wait to see this years tanks, as I
am
> > sure I will be very impressed.
> > Thank you both,
> > Steve Wilson
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Karen Randall
> > To: Steve
> > Cc: AGA Steering Committee
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 10:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Judging the AGA aquascaping contest.
> >
> >
> > Dear Steve,
> >
> > First, I want to thank you for communicating your feelings about the AGA
> > contest.  It is always easier to remain silently discontent than it is
to
> > speak out.  Expressing your feelings in the respectful way you have is
> > always welcome!
> >
> > Second, I want you to be aware that the judging of the 2003 contest has
> > already been completed.  So while your comments will certainly be taken
> into
> > consideration, there is no way they can affect the 2003 contest.
> >
> > Now, on to the "meat" of your letter.  Please remember that aquascaping
> > contests are a relatively new phenomenon outside of the Netherlands, and
> the
> > criteria used there are far more rigid than ours, as well as being based
> on
> > "live" judging rather than photographs of entries.  The AGA 2000 contest
> > was, as far as I know, the first of its kind.  The first Amano contest
> > followed closely on its heels.  Now, if you count all the ADA and AGA
> > contests together, we have a track record of 7 contests over a period of
3
> > years... not very many still!  There have also been a few smaller,
private
> > contests during that period of time, but I don't know a whole lot about
> > them.
> >
> > Of those 7 contests, I have had the privilege of judging 5 of them.
> > Therefore, I probably have more experience with the process than anyone
> > else.  First, I must tell you that you are correct in your supposition
> that
> > judging these contests takes a great deal of time and effort, and there
is
> > no remuneration.  Even "recognition" is minimal.<g>  Unlike other
> > established types of competition, there is, at least so far, no
"training"
> > for judges of aquascaping contests.  Even the judging guidelines are
> > somewhat fluid from year to year... being adjusted as we learn what
works
> > best, and what point systems hopefully put the best tanks on top.
> >
> > In terms of choosing judges, a lot of time and effort went into deciding
> > what types of people should be approached to judge.  The first year, at
> > least one person suggested using people outside of the aquarium hobby;
> > people with a specific art and design background, but no knowledge of
> > aquaristics.  While this might sound like a good idea from a strict
design
> > perspective, our aquariums, first and foremost, must be healthy,
> sustainable
> > habitats for our plants and animals.  It was finally decided that while
> > artistry was important, it could not be at the expense of sound
husbandry
> > practices.  Therefore, the choices were narrowed to those involved with
> > aquariums, either professionally or as hobbyists.  Ideally we would have
> > experienced aquarists who also had a good feel for the artistry of
aquatic
> > gardening, even if they had no formal training in that area.  With those
> > thoughts in mind, the organizers of these contests need to use the
people
> > they can get.  Overall, I think we've been fortunate with the caliber of
> > judges we've had for AGA contests.  As I said before, it is a LOT of
work
> to
> > judge these contests, and many people just don't have the time to do it
> more
> > than once.  Last year's judges were probably the least experienced team
of
> > judges, and I think their comments reflect that.  Still, I'm sure you
will
> > agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinions when it comes to
> art.
> > I think that we owe it to these people to accept their hard work in the
> > spirit in which it was offered.  They worked very hard to not only judge
> the
> > tanks but also write their comments, whether we agree with them or not.
> >
> > I did not judge the AGA contest last year.  I have to agree with you
that
> I
> > would not have placed some of the tanks in the order that they ended up
> last
> > year, but I also show horses, and I know there are many times I don't
> agree
> > with the judges decisions there either!<g>  It is a fact of life that
> there
> > will be differences of opinion.  What is nice about the AGA contest is
> that
> > _you_ as a member can go into the site, look at all the same materials
the
> > judges saw, and make your own personal decision about which tanks you
> liked
> > best. The MAIN point of the AGA aquascaping contest (and the ADA contest
> as
> > well, for that matter) is NOT to establish winners and losers, but to
> share
> > our love of beautiful aquariums with one another.  There will always be
> > disagreements about the specific merits of individual tanks.
> >
> > I'm sorry you decided not to enter the contest this year.  We have an
> > excellent, experienced group of judges. (if I do say so myself ;-)  As
you
> > said yourself, the quality of tanks in the contest has increased every
> year,
> > and you will see yet another increase in quality this year.  We are now
> > reaching a point where MOST of the tanks entered are truly
exceptional...
> to
> > the point that we are considering the need to add some sort of division
> > specifically for those who want to share their "just pretty planted fish
> > tanks" in the future.  We certainly don't want to discourage
participation
> > among those who are not, first and foremost, artists!
> >
> > Even among those who consistently, year after year, have entered very
high
> > quality tanks to the contests there are certainly no guarantees.  One of
> the
> > top tanks in the ADA contest, among over 500 entries last year, was
> > submitted by not only a novice aquatic gardener, but a complete novice
> > aquarist!  And as an aside, you may be interested in the mechanics of
> > judging for the ADA contest.  Because of the large number of entries,
ADA
> > makes the "first cut" before the entries are even sent to the judges.
We
> > only get to see the tanks that the ADA staff has decided to include in
the
> > "top 10%" or so.  I have seen MANY tanks in the close to 500 tanks that
> are
> > cut from competition that I felt were far better than some that were
> > included.  At least in the AGA contest, you know that ALL the judges
were
> > involved in scoring every single tank.
> >
> > While I am glad you voiced your concerns, and I recognize them as valid,
I
> > also urge you to join into the spirit of friendly competition which the
> AGA
> > Aquascaping Contest is meant to be... Much more a vehicle for sharing
our
> > love of this hobby than a path toward individual recognition.  Who
knows?
> > Whether you win or not, if you enter, you have the opportunity to share
> your
> > work and ideas with hundreds of other aquarists, perhaps inspiring them
to
> > greater creativity.  If you don't, you will never know how much of an
> impact
> > you might have had!
> >
> > I am cc'ing this letter to our AGA board.  This is a small, concerned
> group
> > who I am sure will read your comments in the spirit in which they were
> > intended.  I think it is important for them to hear your feelings too!
> >
> > Thank you for writing.  I hope you decide to enter next year... I'd love
> to
> > see your tanks!
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Karen Randall
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Steve
> > To: krandall@rdrcpa.biz
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:19 PM
> > Subject: Judging the AGA aquascaping contest.
> >
> >
> >
> > Karen,
> > For a while now I have wanted to send a message like this one to the AGA
> > member list @ thekrib.com, but I thought that some may find it
offensive,
> > when it should be insightful. I would really like to convey the overall
> > point of this message to anyone who cares while not offending anyone,
> which
> > is why I am sending this to you, a great writer and editor. I became a
> > member of the AGA at your open house last February which is something I
> had
> > wanted to be apart of for quite some time. I have formal training in the
> > fine arts including but not limited to painting, sculpture, and
> composition
> > design. These are a few thoughts I had about the aquascaping contest of
> > years past.
> >
> > I have only been a member of the AGA since February 2003 and I have yet
to
> > post on this forum. I have taken much of my aquascaping inspiration from
> the
> > aquascaping contest pictures posted on the AGA website. Now I did not
> enter
> > the contest this year only because I was less then impressed with the
> > judging of the 2002 contest. In the 2001 contest the judge's comments
that
> > are posted at the bottom of each of the entry page seems to me to be
> > insightful, and express a critique that basically follows the basic
> overall
> > rules of design whether it be painting,sculpture, or aquascape. I really
> > wanted to submit  a tank for the 2002 contest. Well the 2002 contest
came
> > and went and I still had not signed up to be an AGA member.
> > For me the 2002 AGA aquascaping contest entries were far superior to
2001,
> > but I was really thrown off by the judging technique used. It seems to
me
> as
> > though personal preference of arrangement and species used played a much
> > greater role in judging then the rules of design. I saw many tanks that
> were
> > striving for the "Amano look" with American flare and I think a few had
> > great success. The use of negative space in the aquascape is difficult
to
> > achieve while keeping the aquascape balanced, but when that is achieved
it
> > should be rewarded. Also when the judge's comments are suggesting the
> > addition, subtraction, or relocation of items in the aquarium (aside
from
> > equipment) one might try to visualize the tank after those changes and
> come
> > to see a tank that looks like every other tank out there. Is there a
> judging
> > criteria for originality? I know that judging a contest of this size may
> not
> > be easy and the rewards may not be more then recognition, but there are
> many
> > different set styles of aquascaping including the eclectic style and all
> of
> > these styles are only visually pleasing when they follow the set rules
of
> > design not tradition.
> > I am aware that a judges job is to impart a criticism to find the best
> > overall composition and I am sure that is what the judges for the 2002
> > contest were going for. When I look at each picture posted to the
contest,
> I
> > have an immediate overall feeling about the aquascape. Then when I
further
> > inspect the aquascape, with the help of additional photos, I am either
> more
> > or less fond of the overall composition. This is how I view the entries
> > after the judging for both 2001 and 2002. It is not until after I figure
> out
> > what makes the aquascape a success or not that I read the judges notes.
> For
> > 2002 I had disagreements with a majority of the comments and especially
> with
> > some of the outcomes. Now I know that the judges have more aquatic
> gardening
> > experience and know how then I do and I respect them for it. I mean if
it
> > was not for each one of their own personal experiences in aquatic
> > horticulture, we may not be as advanced as we are with growing aquatic
> > plants. At the same time we really need to encourage new styles of
> > aquascaping and not suggest that the eclectic aquascape be changed to be
> > either Dutch or Amano styles, but rather it's own entity. I would really
> > like to see the judging get back to the basics of judging the aquascape
as
> > it appears in the picture and accepting it for what it is and not what
we
> > hope it becomes. I say this because this years contest is surely going
to
> be
> > more difficult to judge the anything in the past and next years contest
> will
> > be even more so.
> > Sincerely,
> > Steve Wilson
> >
> >
>


  ------------------
  To unsubscribe from this list, e-mail majordomo@thekrib.com
  with "unsubscribe aga-sc" in the body of the message.
  Old messages are available at http://lists.thekrib.com/aga-sc
  When asked, log in as username is "aga-sc", and password "incorp".