I can't get a good grip on the discussions right now, sorry, I keep fading out; but here are a few thoughts: I don't know of any volunteer organization that knows its long-term goals that well, let along what *ours* are. I think we want the conventions to break even, and I think the years of the past continue to haunt us. I do not thing that we are thinking of the convention as a way to solve our other financial problems. I think we are attempting to at least correct the deficit in TAG with the move to the new printer, and we have been starting to talk about other ways. Yes, I'd like to see that 2004 budget, not just a spreadsheet to play with that shows we're going down the tubes, but "here is what we are going to do this year to get us out of debt." I think that's what Scott would like to see (and possibly DO). I don't have the energy to crack that particular whip now, with impending fatherhood. I can only ask that we continue to work on the new printer, brainstorm ways of improving membership and retaining the old ones (we're down another 50 to 788 from the last label generation in October). But I don't think this is really relevant to the *convention* budget. The AGA's goal with the convention has been for it to be succesful in attendance and have a very high probability of BREAKING EVEN. This is similar to, but not quite the goal of GWAPA (they specifically want money), but I beleive it is still *our* goal, and in my opinion, we should make any decisions along those lines, taking into account any differences between GWAPA's and AGA's goals and assuring both are met. Digging around with some backups and the like. The 2001 brochure remains the only one I cannot find yet, but I have been able to guess the rates based on my bank account datatabase which shows a $168 check to the Tennessee Aquarium (one full registration for Kathy, plus banquet-only registration for me?), and a nearly-identical visa charge to the Clarion hotel as 2000. 2000 2001* 2002 2003 2004 Location Chattanooga Chattanooga Houston Dallas DC Base $79 $106? $125 $64 $69? Banquet included, included, included, $35 $40 Friday Aquar Friday Aquar Sat. banq, and Sunday br and Sunday br 2x bkfst extra banq $42? extra banq $42 Option $20 $20? included $15 Cruise Amano demo store tours tours Hotel $65 $65 $69 $69/79 $89/99? Shuttle $$$ $$$ $$ 0 0 attendance 75 120 60 128? Point 1: I beleive that part of the dismal failure of 2002 was lack of "cheap path". This has been solved in 2003, and continues with GWAPA's proposal. Point 2: GWAPA's proposed rates, when you factor in airport shuttles and 2 days of hotel, are practically IDENTICAL to what we did in 2001, when the registrant opts for "everything". Point 3: GWAPA is far more together than Charlene was in 2001, and there are more people located closer to Baltimore than Chattanooga. I guess I just convinced myself that we should accept the rates, not add any "bonus bucks", and we'll probably get 200 attendees. - Erik -- Erik Olson erik at thekrib dot com ------------------ To unsubscribe from this list, e-mail majordomo@thekrib.com with "unsubscribe aga-sc" in the body of the message. Old messages are available at http://lists.thekrib.com/aga-sc When asked, log in as username is "aga-sc", and password "incorp".