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Re: [AGA SC] Another perspective on the AGA "Forum" proposal
The quotes must be higher because they do not have enough history to know
what their exposure really is.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber@yahoo.com>
To: <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AGA SC] Another perspective on the AGA "Forum" proposal
>
> --- David Lass <davidlass@villasunscape.com> wrote:
> > That weas the feedback I got from one insurance guy I
> > know -- not the one
> > that was going to give us the quote. The problem is that
> > there is not enough
> > experience to make any kind of an actuarial bet, so, in
> > typical insurance
> > company ways, they will quote very very high.
>
> You mean a high rate for a given amount of coverage or will
> quite for a very high amount of coverage?
>
> sh
>
> > David
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karen Randall" <krandall@rdrcpa.biz>
> > To: <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 1:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AGA SC] Another perspective on the AGA
> > "Forum" proposal
> >
> >
> > > I did talk to my insurance agent when the subject came
> > up before. When he
> > > heard that an internet forum was involved, he didn't
> > want to touch it with
> > a
> > > ten foot pole. Or a nine foot Russian either.
> > >
> > > Karen
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Kathy Olson" <kathy@thekrib.com>
> > > To: <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:56 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [AGA SC] Another perspective on the AGA
> > "Forum" proposal
> > >
> > >
> > > > David,
> > > >
> > > > I think multiple opinions are good.
> > > >
> > > > Exactly my point on the doc stuff. Doc's know we get
> > sued, and that we
> > > > are seen as a target or easy mark. The AGA isn't
> > EVEN CLOSE to the
> > > > liability that I have as a doctor. So it should be
> > cheap. Shoot, car
> > > > insurance should be more, we have more liability
> > driving our cars than
> > the
> > > > AGA does. But alas it is all a business in a sue
> > happy world.
> > > >
> > > > I am pursuing the ACA question, and some local clubs
> > too.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I think we should all ask our insurance people
> > and get multiple
> > > > quotes. I think we also should make it clear that we
> > have very limited
> > > > exposure too...because we do in my opinion!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kathy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, David Lass wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The medical problem with lawsuits and insurance is,
> > I hope, very
> > > different
> > > > > from AGA's. Docs ands hospitals/clinics are
> > perceived as having very
> > > deep
> > > > > pockets -- hopefully AGA is seen as only have a
> > deep enough gravel
> > base
> > > ot
> > > > > hold the roots.
> > > > > Monday I will get with my insurance folks and push
> > them a little
> > > further. If
> > > > > anyone else wants to pursue a different insurer
> > that can't hurt.
> > > > > David
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Kathy Olson" <kathy@thekrib.com>
> > > > > To: <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:29 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [AGA SC] Another perspective on the
> > AGA "Forum" proposal
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is interesting too, how much is enough.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know that I was always told, carry a mil
> > umbrella on your personal
> > > > > > house/property, this was back when I was a med
> > student...they said
> > > yeah
> > > > > > you are med student and up to your ears in debt
> > but one day you will
> > > not
> > > > > > be a med student. Then the main worry was car
> > accident stuff.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now I am a doc, and the clinic carries
> > malpractice insurance. My
> > > exposure
> > > > > > is HUGE, way larger than the AGA, and they carry
> > one million. Which
> > > is
> > > > > > not a lot when you look at how cases are settled
> > these days. Our
> > > clinic
> > > > > > use to carry 2 mil but then when compared to
> > other docs in the area,
> > > > > > industry standard was 1 mil. So they felt like
> > having a 2 mil limit
> > > just
> > > > > > invited more lawsuits at a higher number.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So the question is, "what is our exposure"-all we
> > do is a magazine,
> > > email
> > > > > > list, possible forum and a convention (of which
> > the hotel is way
> > > bigger
> > > > > > target than us)...but still yes I think we need
> > insurance. I
> > > wouldn't
> > > > > > let it be public knowledge that we have it either
> > (the target
> > issue),
> > > yes,
> > > > > > I sound paranoid here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The thing is...the Novak think with Erik really
> > stressed me out. We
> > > > > > couldn't refinance our house jointly because Erik
> > was named in a
> > suit,
> > > so
> > > > > > we had to quick claim deed it to me and I
> > refinanced it in my name.
> > > It is
> > > > > > why I didn't want to be on the AGA board, so if
> > the board was ever
> > > sued
> > > > > > one of us was lawsuit free to be able to do
> > things like refinance.
> > > Yes,
> > > > > > it sucks, but I have to live with this stuff
> > regularly with work.
> > > There
> > > > > > probably isn't a month, maybe even week that goes
> > by that we/md's
> > > don't
> > > > > > have something regarding it cross our desks. no
> > we aren't sued that
> > > much,
> > > > > > but there is just tons of info about it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know this is way more than you wanted to hear,
> > but there you go.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kathy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, S. Hieber wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > One of the confounding elements on this issue
> > is not what
> > > > > > > is the cost for a given amount of protectio,
> > but how much
> > > > > > > is a reasonable amount of protecton to buy. . .
> > .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Probably only an actuary could make some
> > reasonable
> > > > > > > assessment of the amount of harm ($s) combined
> > with the
> > > > > > > probability of ocurrence to determine total
> > risk against
> > > > > > > which it's reasonable to protect.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm sure I did not say that very well :-\
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sh
> > > > > > > --- David Lass <davidlass@villasunscape.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I'll have to call thge insurance guy Monday
> > -- will do
> > > > > > > > so.
> > > > > > > > Take care,
> > > > > > > > David
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Kathy Olson" <kathy@thekrib.com>
> > > > > > > > To: <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:46 AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AGA SC] Another perspective on
> > the AGA
> > > > > > > > "Forum" proposal
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > David
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > what were the quotes you last got on
> > ins?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, David Lass wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The problem is that with a published
> > magazine there
> > > > > > > > is all sorts of law
> > > > > > > > > > regarding libel and slander -- one is for
> > spoken one
> > > > > > > > is for written both
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > the same. With stuff on the web it is not
> > so clear,
> > > > > > > > and there is a
> > > > > > > > building
> > > > > > > > > > "tradition" that you can say anything you
> > want in
> > > > > > > > cyberspace.
> > > > > > > > Unfortunately,
> > > > > > > > > > this slams right into the American
> > tradition of you
> > > > > > > > can sue anyone for
> > > > > > > > > > anything. The real problem is not the
> > consequences of
> > > > > > > > losing a
> > > > > > > > lawsuit -- it
> > > > > > > > > > is the costy of defending yourself.
> > Insurance pays
> > > > > > > > for this as well as
> > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > the idiot who sued you prevails.
> > > > > > > > > > David
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: "S. Hieber" <shieber@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > To: <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 6:27 AM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AGA SC] Another perspective
> > on the AGA
> > > > > > > > "Forum" proposal
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This begs a question that Erik has
> > already hinted
> > > > > > > > at. We do
> > > > > > > > > > > not have this fear of speech re TAG.
> > Everything is
> > > > > > > > > > > previewed and edited so tht we are
> > comfortable with
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > content. Is this how, if we did forums,
> > we would
> > > > > > > > have to do
> > > > > > > > > > > them? Is this how we need to manage
> > the member
> > > > > > > > mail list?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > sh
> > > > > > > > > > > --- Erik Olson <erik@thekrib.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Agreed David!!! With all this talk,
> > I'm worried
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > someone might just
> > > > > > > > > > > > come by and sue us over something on
> > our little
> > > > > > > > e-mail
> > > > > > > > > > > > list these days.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Beleive me, Novak WOULD have if the
> > AGA had
> > > > > > > > gotten
> > > > > > > > > > > > involved in the PSW
> > > > > > > > > > > > case 3 years ago. It is quite
> > fortunate, for
> > > > > > > > instance,
> > > > > > > > > > > > that I am
> > > > > > > > > > > > officially not making any money off
> > the video
> > > > > > > > sales, but
> > > > > > > > > > > > rather it is
> > > > > > > > > > > > entirely going towards reimbursement
> > for all the
> > > > > > > > > > > > equipment I purchase...
> > > > > > > > > > > > this is a point he tried to use
> > against me in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > lawsuit.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - -
> > > > > > > > > > > AGA 2004 Annual Convention
> > > > > > > > > > > Designing The Nature Aquarium --
> > demonstrated by
> > > > > > > > Takashi Amano
> > > > > > > > > > > Paludarium design -- Mike Senske
> > > > > > > > > > > Planted Aquarium Ecology -- Diana
> > Walstad
> > > > > > > > > > > Cryptocorynes -- Jan D. Bastmeijer
> > > > > > > > > > > Field Trip, workshops and more, Nov 12,
> > 13 & 14;
> > > > > > > > > > > Marriott Crystal Gateway, Arlington,
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> > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > > - - - - - - - -
> > > > > > > AGA 2004 Annual Convention
> > > > > > > Designing The Nature Aquarium -- demonstrated
> > by Takashi Amano
> > > > > > > Paludarium design -- Mike Senske
> > > > > > > Planted Aquarium Ecology -- Diana Walstad
> > > > > > > Cryptocorynes -- Jan D. Bastmeijer
> > > > > > > Field Trip, workshops and more, Nov 12, 13 &
> > 14;
> > > > > > > Marriott Crystal Gateway, Arlington, VA, USA
> > > > > > > Details & Registration at
> > www.aquatic-gardeners.org &
> > www.gwapa.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
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> =====
> - - - - - - - -
> AGA 2004 Annual Convention
> Designing The Nature Aquarium -- demonstrated by Takashi Amano
> Paludarium design -- Mike Senske
> Planted Aquarium Ecology -- Diana Walstad
> Cryptocorynes -- Jan D. Bastmeijer
> Field Trip, workshops and more, Nov 12, 13 & 14;
> Marriott Crystal Gateway, Arlington, VA, USA
> Details & Registration at www.aquatic-gardeners.org & www.gwapa.org
>
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