Re: [AGA-sc] NEC

I mean they don't get you more light for the amount of energy input. And what doesn't get converted to light is given off as heat. Some of the stuff about LEDs on that web page is misleading; some downright, well, dishonest.

The advantage of LEDs is long life, low maintenance. The disadvantage is lower efficiency and costly or complex constrcution than vapor or fluorescent lamps.

Of course, compared to incadescents, which is what they replace in, for example, traffic lights, they're tremendously more efficient, but then, there are few things on earth as inefficient as incandescent light bulbs -- Edison strikes again.

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----- Original Message ----
From: Larry Lampert <l_lampert@yahoo.com>
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Board <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 11:27:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AGA-sc] NEC

maybe we should move this thread to the forum he ;-).

Anyways, I need some clarification, by effircient you mean heat to light ratio right? Or are you talking about watts to lumens or PAR?

Aren't LEDs low voltage and low heat? Metal Halides 120 voltage and generally high heat. I was thinking more efficient just cuz they throw off less heat per lumen and my A/C bill might be a little less when the temps get over 100. A watt of light is generally a watt of light more or less right so isn't the efficiency gain in the heat reduction? Am I all wrong here it's happened b4 ;-).......

Regards,

Larry

----- Original Message ----
From: S. Hieber <shieber@yahoo.com>
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Board <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 9:38:20 AM
Subject: Re: [AGA-sc] NEC

Note that the site says that one of the reasons that LEDs are better is because unlike MHs or fluourescents, they don't emit light in all directions and therefore don't need a reflector. This is because every LED has reflector inside. So you don't have to buy a reflector, but in terms of efficiency, there is no advantage there.

They also claim that LEDs are more efficient than MHs -- more effcient than normal output LEDs are, sure. But high output LEDs that emit something other than red, I doubt it. I've never seen numbers that support such a claim. Generally, they are less efficient than MHs, the kind we would use anyway.

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----- Original Message ----
From: Larry Lampert <l_lampert@yahoo.com>
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Board <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:29:31 AM
Subject: Re: [AGA-sc] NEC

David,

Cool links, I used to be in the lighting business years ago too.

Hey I found this link on the one of the links that you sent. Check this out LEDs in  a premade grow type fixture...looks cool.
I have become enamoured with LEDs since seeing Tony Gomers homemade LEDS at AGA 2k6.
http://www.accessdiscounts.us/growlights-led-gro-master.html

Thanks David!

Larry

----- Original Message ----
From: David Lass <davidlass@villasunscape.com>
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Board <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 8:22:20 AM
Subject: Re: [AGA-sc] NEC

The problem is that most of the T5's that are being offered for sale to the
hobby are low output -- their nominal 4' lamp is only 35 watts, which makes
it about equivalent to a T8. To get the HO T5's, and to get them and the
fixtures at a reasonable price, instead of the grossly inflated price they
are being sold for in the hobby, you have to go to the lighting industry.
Since I was in that business for years, and still have contatcs, I get them
through my friends locally.
You can, however, also get them --wait for it -- on the web.

http://www.accessdiscounts.us/sku-26300.html

http://www.aeilighting.com/t5l6810.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Case-of-40-T5-HO-Fluorescent-Lamps-Bulbs-NEW_W0QQitemZ110081907152QQcmdZViewItem

The nominal 4' T5's that are sold through the lighting industry are all 54
watts, which makes them 1.8 times the output of a T8. They are usually
available in 5,000K and 6,500K, plus there are actinics, which I always use
in conjunction with the whites -- after all, you don't see many blue plants
do you, which means to me that the blue light is really being used by the
plants.

This page
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightingAnswers/lat5/pc8.asp
discusses the burn life of the T5's -- they are 20,000 hours, the same as
T8's, so I am at a loss to understand (other than to sell more lamps) why
the guys who are pushing the low output T5's say they should be changed
every year. In fact, they should last 4 years if burned 5,000 hours per
year.

The other thing about them is their degradation curve -- this page
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightingAnswers/lat5/pc9.asp
shows that they are even better than T8's -- never getting below 90%.

The problem with power compacts is HEAT. Heat is the major enemy of lamp
performance, and PC's are really just T8's turned back on themselves. They
are also usually crammed into a tightly sealed hood, and there is no place
for the heat to go, except back to the lamps. That is why you really can't
pin anyone down on the life or degradation of PCs. I used to use them, in
fact had all of my lights AH Supply stuff, but I found that they crapped out
in much less than a year.

So -- that is why I am a big fan of linear T5 lamps -- the HO kind that you
can get from lighting supply houses, not the wimps that the industry is
pawning off on us.
Hope this helps -- sorry for having gone on at such length, but I think the
URL's will make interesting looking for you all.
Take care,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cheryl Rogers" <cheryl@dustyuniverse.com>
To: "Aquatic Gardeners Association Board" <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AGA-sc] NEC

> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/new-to-aquarium-plants/37462-t5-vs-pc-which-is-best.html
>
> Cheryl
>
> Karen Randall wrote:
>> Ahem.  I see a TAG article shaping up here, don't you, Cheryl? ;-)
>>
>> Karen
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Erik Olson" <erik@thekrib.com>
>> To: "Aquatic Gardeners Association Board" <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 7:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AGA-sc] NEC
>>
>>
>>> No no, I think you got my intent wrong!  I am very interested in T5's.
>>> See this page to see how nerdy I've been
>>>
>>> http://mystery.thekrib.com/T5/
>>>
>>> You are very enthusiastic about em, and I am curious how they have made
>>> you feel as such!
>>>
>>> Did you go from T8's to PC's to T5's on all your tanks, or did you take
>>> the plunge directly to the T5's from T8's or T12's?
>>>
>>> Where do you get the cheap tubes?  What color temp do you use?  How
>>> about
>>> ballasts?
>>>
>>> My experience has been that the tubes I found cost similar amount as the
>>> PC's, and of course they use the same ballasts.  Light output somewhat
>>> more efficient with proper reflector.  So my conclusion has been that
>>> they're a *little* better than PCs.  But of course, I have not found $4
>>> tubes yet.  That would be a reason to replace my single-tube T8's on my
>>> medium light tanks.
>>>
>>>   - Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, David Lass wrote:
>>>
>>>> Granted, I don't grow any fancy plants, but I have them on all of my
>>>> tanks -- including my 300. They are the best lights I have ever used,
>>>> and
>>>> I
>>>> especially like the fact that they are cheap (I think I paid $4 per 54
>>>> watt
>>>> lamp) and they last a long time. I run 2 -- 54 watts on a 4' 120, and 6
>>>> on
>>>> my 300. If you don'[t think they are any better then I won't bring
>>>> them.
>>>> Take care,
>>>> David
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Erik Olson" <erik@thekrib.com>
>>>> To: "Aquatic Gardeners Association Board" <aga-sc@thekrib.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 5:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AGA-sc] NEC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007, David Lass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If anyone is interested, I can bring some T5's and talk a little on
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> they are so much better than Power Compacts. I've got them on all of
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> tanks.
>>>>> OK, I'll bite... how have you found them "so much better"?  I've got
>>>>> them
>>>>> on one tank, and I like them & would use them for new setups, but I'd
>>>>> categorize them as "incrementally better". :)
>>>>>
>>>>>   - Erik
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Erik Olson
>>>>> erik at thekrib dot com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> AGA-sc mailing list
>>>>> AGA-sc@thekrib.com
>>>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/aga-sc
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> AGA-sc mailing list
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>>>>
>>> --
>>> Erik Olson
>>> erik at thekrib dot com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AGA-sc mailing list
>>> AGA-sc@thekrib.com
>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/aga-sc
>>>
>>
>>
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