Hello Steve Like Zman and David, i too really like the bare bottom tank approach. My breeding tanks are set up basically like this: one flower pot per fish plus on extra pot, several yarn mops ( I breed my killies in my apisto tanks also) and a hydro sponge filter. I also go and put a good clump of Hygrophila in each tank or water sprite. This give them a sense of security with cover above them. Bare bottom tanks have been my approach for the last 5 years or so, have great success with this method. I use gravel in my tanks with my west africans though, they seem to prefer it to bare bottom tanks. Something about them liking to dig abit i guess. Hope this helps you out some John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!