I would suggest that if possible, pay for them and arrange for them to be kept at the shop until you can place them into their own tank. Fewer changes will give less stress. I like to set them up with lots of caves and some plastic plants (yes they are ugly) because my plants tend to "melt down" at the low pH around 5.5-6.0 that they like for spawning. I've always let the parents raise the fry and got fairly large batches of 60-80. The males seemed kind of shy, the females dance a lot. Pencils make good dithers. Hope this helps. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!