Re: Female or Sleeper Male?

[Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise@bewellnet.com>]

Mike,

Back in the late 60s - early 70s the original imports of A. hongsloi were lost on several occasions because of inadvertent crossing of macmasteri-like forms with the hongsloi-forms. Being less closely related than A. viejita & A. macmasteri, these resulted in fish with low/no fertility. We saw the same thing happen with the original imports of A. sp. Tefé which were unintentionally crossed with an agassizii form. I am sure that A. macmasteri and the many forms of "A. viejita" have been crossed in the hobby without knowing it. I expect that such "hybrids" would be fertile for the most part, like common commercial swordtails (X. xiphophorus x X. maculatus). This is the reason why I prefer (& encourage others) to keep their various WILD strains separate until we know for certain which are true species (whatever that is!). As for the highly inbred, probably crossbred, domestic forms, it really doesn't matter as long as they remain
beautiful, fertile, and strong.

So in Mike's case I see no reason for not experimenting with his domestic strains. It will probably shed some light on what he has. If after 2 or 3 generations he sees a drop in fertility compared to control groups of the forms that he has now, then he can assume that his two present forms are actually genetically isolated species. If they remain as fertile as the control groups, then he has either a single species or fertile cross of 2 species like the swordtail - and I wouldn't know how you could easily determine which is true. I just encourage him, if he sells the fry, to be honest with naming the offspring as crosses of 2 domestic strains.

Mike Wise

Mike Jacobs wrote:

> Mike Jacobs  Math Instructor
> Center for Advanced Technologies
> St Pete, Fl
> mjacobs@cat.pinellas.k12.fl.us
> mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
>
> >>> Mike & Diane Wise<apistowise@bewellnet.com> 10/17/00 09:33PM >>>
> Ken,
>
> Now that I've written this, I will add a caveat. I agree with Koslowski, who
> believes that it is better to finely divide the different forms of apistos and
> list them as species for now. It is possible many species of apistos will be
> combined by some taxonomist in the future. If this occurs, all of the above
> species will be considered one species - A. macmasteri!
>
> Mike Wise
>
> Mike....................then if a person were energetic enough they could spawn A. macmasteri x A. viejita and get viable fry??????????  I'm serious....and I don't care if you folks think I am the devil....;-)...but I have looked and looked and talked and talked about the A. macmasteri  and the A. viejita that are coming in from Germany and man oh man do they lok the same.  I have kept them all separate up until now but I'll make a bet that if I put my 2 male viejitas and 2 male macmasteri in the same tank you couldn't tell them apart unless you watched me.  Sometimes I sit in front of the tanks and try to "make up" things that might separate them visually.  I know that visual difference doesn't necessarily make a species, Mike, but what an experiment.............................or has the experiment already been done and that's what we are getting from Germany??????..............stranger things have happened...................
>
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