I prefer to keep my Apistos in tanks with substrate.I bred borellii's in a bare bottom tank once and sure liked the ease of cleaning it.Most Apisto fem.like to close up their spawning caves with substrate after the egg deposit to keep out possible egg hunters. IMHO most fish feel more comfortable in a tank with substrate and plants,yes Discus included(shields up).Looks better in photos ,too. Max _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!