Hello Bob I'll give this one a whirl...... without knowing for sure.... I would guess you have a MacMasteri male. I rule out saying Viejita due to the lack of markings in the face... my Viejita II males have alot of blue spangling markings in the face, plus they have a caudal puduncle mark. My MacMasteri lack the marking at the base of the caudal puduncle. Ok , ok, I change my mind here.... after taking one more look at your fish and then comparing them to both my Macs and Viejita... i dont think this is either of them... I am going out on a limb here and saying your fish is a washed out stressed coloration pattern of a Nijsenni male.. The fact that this fish lacks any dorsal fin first 3 or 4 fin spikes.... this leads me to believe this isnt a Mac or Viejita.. but if you look at Nijsenni, they have this smooth rounded edge to the dorsal fin from the first rays back.. plus the orange coloration to the pelvic fins and there is the rounded edged caudal fin with red color... this could maybe be a Nijsenni.... but not a Panduro... Panduro would have a black marking at the caudal puduncle..... Of course without being able to check out the fish in person... who really knows... Maybe a few more pics... plus maybe a few pics of the females.... that might help out a bit more.. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto