Oh ..... I knew I forgot something in my last post... lol... I just had this happen not that long ago to a Nijsenni female... I've had it happen a few times and also never been able to get a fish to recover from it.... they always ended up dying. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto