Colin, I don't know if I can really help you or not. Separating wild A. macmasteri from A. viejita is not that difficult. A. macmasteri has a deeper body than A. viejita. A. macmasteri has a broader lateral band than A. viejita. It is usually seen as a broken row of spots on A. macmasteri, even on males. Male A. viejita typically show a continuous band. The abdominal stripes on A. macmasteri are much less prominent than those on A. viejita. The caudal spot on A. macmasteri is more or less rectangular in shape, while the spot on A. viejita it has a more round to oval, or even half moon shape. The caudal fin is usually squared off or double tipped on A. macmasteri. The caudal fin of A. viejita is usually round with tiny upper & lower tips. The males of A. viejita have very long dorsal & anal fins that can extend well beyond the end of the caudal fin. The dorsal & anal fins are much shorter on A. macmasteri males. And last, the top edge of the dorsal fin of A. viejita is a nice red color, running from the 2nd dorsal spine to the back tip of the soft dorsal. A. macmasteri rarely shows red on the top edge of the dorsal fin. Instead it is usually silver colored with minor red, mostly on the soft part of the dorsal fin. Now that I have described the differences, I should let you know that I am not certain that A. viejita & A. macmasteri are different species. They are 2 very closely related forms. In 2000 some fish were imported into Germany that even had characteristics intermediate between A. macmasteri & A. viejita. If you have domestic A. macmasteri there is a good chance that somewhere in their family history A. viejita was accidentally or purposely mixed with them. Between 1985 & 2000 most of the fish sold as 'A. viejita' - wild or domestic - were not the real (holotype) A. viejita. Usually we got a closely related form called A. sp. Red-flecked/Rotflecken (or A. viejita color form II), itself probably a geographic color form of A. sp. Black-throat/Schwarzkehl (or A. viejita color form III). Whether or not all 4 of these forms are populations of one wide ranging species awaits more detailed study of distribution, morphology, & possibly DNA. Mike Wise Colin Gorton wrote: > Last week I bought 3 Viejitas (1M, 2F) which > have just produced free swimming fry:-), > unfortunately there seems to be some doubt as to > whether they are Viejitas or Macmasteris. I've > got Uwe Römer's book but that doesn't really > clear up my doubt, can anybody tell me something > which will help me to be sure what I've got? > C:-)lin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto Trading at http://blox.dropship.org/mailman/listinfo/apisto_trader