Hello all, I've been e-mailing with Thomas Mroz, who has seen the same variation between shipments of 'pandurini' (whew, it's not just me!). I like the cichlid-l idea, although past attempts to sub haven't worked for me. I'll try again. but I'd also like to reformulate what was bugging me when I posted the "naming" question. In the apisto hobby, we've begun to "tag" our fish (ie agassizii Rio Tefe) and I think that's a healthy development. As a killie and West African dwarf cichlid type, I carefully maintain my populations separate, but I've noticed a lot of apisto people I've met are more cavalier about this. I haven't met the people on this list, but I'm impressed by the approaches I keep reading. I think we should consider tagging our apistos when we can. We get our fish though commercial importations, which complicates things, but it doesn't make things impossible. When I look at the pandurini complex, or njisseni complex, however it lands, I think I'm seeing something that reminds me of my beloved Pelvicachromis taeniatus complex. When I know I have at least a different morph, if not a species, then I would want a generally recognized way of signalling this difference, consistently, to any serious apisto hobbyist i give the fish to. It doesn't take long to make an aquarium form of a fish that was just fine in its ancient, fascinating wild form. No exporter will give a trustworthy location, for business reasons, but maybe we could have a number/letter system we all respect, for the new and weird, at least to differentiate between different importations. It has to start somewhere. If this is off the wall, just tell me, but it does seem possible. After all, what intrigues you more, P. taeniatus Cross River or P. taeniatus Gary's basement? Gary (Montreal) ----------- Reminder: Kindly quote parsimoniously when replying ------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@aquaria.net. To subscribe or unsubscribe or get help , send the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" or "help" in the body (not subject) to apisto-request@aquaria.net