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Explorers and collectors- Heed!!
- Subject: Explorers and collectors- Heed!!
- From: IDMiamiBob@aol.com
- Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 00:07:01 -0500 (EST)
I'm forwarding this to the apisto list as I am sure one or two of our South
American members fit her needs.
<< ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 97 18:16:47 -0800
From: Anna Mishcon <cicada@cicada.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Cicada Films
To: Aquatic-Plants@actwin.com
Subject: New Species
I am a documentary researcher at Cicada Films collecting information on
people hunting for new species around the world. I am urgently looking for
someone investigating new species of aquatic plants. The film will focus
on the people as much as their expeditions. We are looking for people that
are seriously passionate about their work.
I would be extremely grateful for any contacts or info that you may have.
Looking forward very much to hearing from you,
many thanks,
Chloe Leland
>>
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: Aquatic-Plants-Owner@actwin.com (Aquatic Plants Digest)
Reply-to: Aquatic-Plants@actwin.com
To: Aquatic-Plants@actwin.com
Date: 97-11-06 03:51:03 EST
Aquatic Plants Digest Thursday, November 6 1997 Volume 02 : Number 1060
In this issue:
Re: brown algae problem
New plants dying/help
Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #1059
Open top or covered top plant tank????
New Species
Heteranthera zosteriofolia
Shrimp Eggs
Duckweed
Metal Halide Lights
lighting issues
distorted shoots
distorted shoots
Energy use in plants
See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:55:25 -0500
From: Beverly Erlebacher <bae@cs.toronto.edu>
Subject: Re: brown algae problem
> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 16:31:59 -0500
> From: Shireen Gonzaga <shireen@stsci.edu>
>
> Hi ...
>
> I've got a brown algae problem, and urgently need some advice. This
> tank is an exhibit at a wildlife refuge that features native fish and
> plants. I don't have daily access to it, and it's maintained by a
> network of volunteers.
Ramshorn snails (probably Planorbis corneum) will eat lots of brown algae.
I don't know if they are exclusively Eurasian or whether they are native
to North America as well, but if you can't use them for authenticity
reasons, you should be able to find a native snail that will fill the
same niche.
One place to get more info on suitable native critters for your exhibit is
Adey and Loveland's book Dynamic Aquaria. They have a species list of a
Chesapeake Bay mesocosm they set up. You could also just gather some mud
and plants from ponds or streams in the wildlife refuge and see if you can
bring in some more organisms to balance the algae growth.
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 17:05:16 -0500
From: "NOREEN A. MURPHY" <nmurphy@gis.net>
Subject: New plants dying/help
Hi,
I just received (on Monday) an order from Arizona Aquatic Gardens. This
was a fairly large order, to re-plant my 55g tank. The plants arrived in
somewhat sad condition. I was assured by Peter (at Arizona) that they
were fine, an to go ahead and plant.
I did. Now I think it was a mistake. The Dwarf sags are almost all dead
(20 total ordered). At least 6 (out of 8)of the crypto wendtii are
almost colorless/pale/stringy leaves. The vals (probably 10 out of 25)
are also looking pretty sick.
Arizona is closed for inventory this week, and has not returned my call.
My question is whether or not I should take out the dead and dying ASAP,
take them all out, or just let it go?
I just re-started this tank after suffering a severe algae problem, and
do not want to have disaster # 2 follow so quickly.
I am injecting CO2, but do not expect this to bring them back from the
dead. I will be happy just to keep the live ones going.
Thanks for any advice.
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:02:30 -0500
From: Beverly Erlebacher <bae@cs.toronto.edu>
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #1059
> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 97 07:24:39 -0800
> From: gomberg@wcf.com
>
> I have a lot of carbon (from bone, one of the best sources, was
> food grade some years ago, Scattergood brand for those who have
> been in the hobby as long as I have) that I will sell for a fair
> price. What does MOPS charge?
I would think bone charcoal would be one of the worst sources for
aquarium use, considering that the mineral in bone is calcium phosphate!
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:25:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Don Pickerel <pickerel@netcom.com>
Subject: Open top or covered top plant tank????
And one other disadvantage for an open top tank for California residents.
I had an open top glass tank sitting next to a closed and covered
plexiglass tank when the Northridge earthquake hit. The closed top
stopped water from sloshing out, and also acted as a baffle which stopped
the tank from walking.
The open tank lost 1/3 of it's water, several fish ended up sitting on my
couch, and it walked several inches further on it's stand.
And with all of the recent activity in Northern California, who knows?
- - -Don Pickerel-
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:52:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cynthia Powers <cyn@metronet.com>
Subject: New Species
- - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 97 18:16:47 -0800
From: Anna Mishcon <cicada@cicada.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Cicada Films
To: Aquatic-Plants@actwin.com
Subject: New Species
I am a documentary researcher at Cicada Films collecting information on
people hunting for new species around the world. I am urgently looking for
someone investigating new species of aquatic plants. The film will focus
on the people as much as their expeditions. We are looking for people that
are seriously passionate about their work.
I would be extremely grateful for any contacts or info that you may have.
Looking forward very much to hearing from you,
many thanks,
Chloe Leland
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:48:03 -0700
From: olga@arts.ubc.ca
Subject: Heteranthera zosteriofolia
To:David Whittaker and Michael Eckardt
>Subject: Re: Heteranthera zosteriofolia
>>I need some help with H.z.!
>>New leaves grow green but as they become older, they turn black, as if they
>>were damaged somehow. They are in full light, and everything else in this
>>tank (2 dozen or so species) grows very well.
>>Could it be the current? Low Ca-levels? Too much iron (at .1-.2 ppm)? Any
>>ideas?
I have recently upped the current in my tank with a powerhead. All the
other plants seem to like it but the Star Grass leaf ends are now going
black. Don't think it likes being tossed in the current. I will move it
back, behind the power head and see what happens.
Olga
in cloudy moody Vancouver
and Hey! Why should Paul K. in Mississippi know about X-files? It's filmed
here in spooky Vancouver, you know. :) Anyone want David or Jillian's
autograph?? They are filming here at UBC all the time.
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:53:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson@calweb.com>
Subject: Shrimp Eggs
In Digest V2 #1058, "James E. Capelle" <jcapelle@gte.net> wrote:
>This came over from the Rainbowfish mailing list tonight, thought
>someone might like to hear about this. Time to stock up on eggs before
>the price goes out the roof. Jim C.
I have verified that eggs are going to be in extreamly short supply through
two different suppliers. One has already doubled their price and has made
statements indicating that they do not know how long even THAT price will be
good or how long they will be able to keep eggs of ANY quality in stock. The
other supplier has increased prices by a full third and instituted a limit
of three pounds per person (wholesale!) per month!
Apparantly El Nino has increased the rain flowing into the Great Salt Lake
resulting in decreased salinity. Under conditions of decreased salinity,
brine shrimp tend to have live births as opposed to producing cysts. Also,
those cysts that are produced under such conditions tend to be of lower
overall quality.
One answer that my partner and I have found is the use of deencapsulated
brine shrimp cysts. These are not the ones occassionally seen in aquarium
stores for hatching at two to three times the normal costs of cysts. These
are made from junk grade cysts for the aquaculture industry. As the shells
have been removed, they are 100% food and as none of the energy has been
expended by a hatching and growing artemia, they have a higher overall
energy density than live nauplii. I've found one supplier that is selling me
the cysts for approximately $20/500 gram (20 cans in a 10kg case) and if
anyone is interested, I could resell cans for $25 including s/h & applicable
sales tax. I'm also looking into prices and quality at another distributor,
so I might be able to offer an even better price later on.
Didn't mean for this to get commercial, but the deencapsulated cysts may be
a viable solution for those of us keeping large numbers of fry. Our
apistogramma sp. & corydoras sp. are going after these cysts just like they
would live nauplii.
- - -- dj
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:54:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson@calweb.com>
Subject: Duckweed
In Digest V2 #1059, "David W. Webb" <dwebb@ti.com> wrote:
>Although I haven't made the measurements to tell what nutrient is high in a
>duckweed-covered tank, I find that flourishing duckweed generally indicates
>the right conditions for flourishing algae. The nice thing about duckweed
>is that it's a lot easier to harvest than algae. ;-)
It may be easier to harvest, but in my experience its d@mn harder to
erradicate!
Ever go away for a week and come home to find a 1 to 1.5" thick layer of
duckweed strangling your tank? <shudder>
- - -- dj
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:54:04 -0800 (PST)
From: "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson@calweb.com>
Subject: Metal Halide Lights
In Digest V2 #1059, "Shimoda, Wade" <WShimoda@hei.com> wrote:
> I have several questions about MH lighting. I read what I could find in
the archives
> but still have these questions. I'm thinking of using them over a 90 gal.
tank.
First a caveat. I've never used metal halides personally, but I've spent a
good portion of the last couple years looking into setting up a marine reef
tank with such lites and I've also been looking into their use relating to
hydroponics in the last month or so. Take my perceptions for what they're
worth -- well researched but untested in reality.
>1) Could anyone describe their success (or failure) with using MH lights
>from a hydroponics supplier?
>2) Or what about MH fixtures as used in warehouses, or even the smaller
>ones used in retail spaces?
I question how different either of these would be. While some new advances
have been made in HID lamps (Sodium Vapor and Metal Halide) recently that
can make them even more usefull for growing plants, most of the practical
advances made have been applied to flourescents as not nearly as many people
are using the more powerful lighting systems for plant/aquarium use.
With respect to the lighting systems availble from a hydroponics supplier, I
pulled out a catalog from a local store. It lists three types of metal
halides and three different types of sodiums in various wattages in four
different types (brands?) of lighting hoods.
Here's a quick run down:
Standard Metal Halides: Bluish-white light. 4200k. Available in 175, 250,
400, and 1000 watt sizes.
Agro Sun Halides: Hybrid halides that work in standard halide systems.
3300K. Available in 400 & 1000 watt sizes.
Daylight Halides: "Virtually duplicates natural sunlight". 5500K & 6500K.
Available in 250 and 400 watt sizes.
HP Sodium Vapor: Orange light for stem growth and increased flowering.
2100k. Available in 150, 250, 400 & 1000 watt sizes.
Son Agro Sodiums: Hybrid sodium w/ 30% more blue. 2000K Available in 160,
270 & 430 watt sizes.
Enhanced Sodium: Icreased blue & higher lumen output. No temp rating.
Available only in 600 watt sizes.
I would think that normally only the daylight halides would be useful,
however there may be situations where some of the other bulbs might be
useful. The hydroponic supplier also has sodium conversions for use in
halide systems and halide conversions for use in sodium vapor systems.
>1a) and 2a) Are either of the above available with a remote ballast so
>that I don't have to hang the extra weight from the ceiling?
Three of the four lighting systems have remote ballasts and all four have
water resistant plugs for use in humid greenhouses.
>1b) and 2b) Are there safety concerns with these non-aquarium fixtures
>that I should be aware of? (e.g., UV radiation, non-containment of
>shattering lamps, etc.)
Two of the four systems have the ability to attach a safety shield to
protect bulbs from accidental spray & to help keep their reflectors clean.
The same two systems also can attach a cooling system so that cooler air
from outside the growing area can be brought in to cool the bulb and then
piped out again. One of the reasons for this is for greenhouses that use
supplemental CO2. A third system actually has an optional light diffuser to
keep from burning plants if placed too close to the leaves of the growing
plants.
>3) Which type of fixture would work best over an open top tank? The
>boxy type that usually come with a couple fluorescent tubes, or the
>pendant type?
>
>I'm particularly interested in learning whether or not the reflector
>designs for non aquarium specific MH fixtures reflect light across a
>narrower or wider area than aquarium specific MH fixtures.
The system I mentioned in 1b above that has the optional light diffuser has
an adjustable reflector so that the light can be focused onto either a very
small area or diffussed over a much larger area.
>4) Why do the aquarium MH fixtures use universal (vertical or horizontal
>mounting) lamps rather than those specifically designed for one burning
>position? Is this just a way for the distributor to stock fewer lamps?
I don't know. One thing I notice from the bulb replacement specs is that for
the standard metal halides where the hydroponic store carries both
horizontal and universal mount bulbs, the horizontal mount bulbs have
approximately 10% higher initial lumens. However, for daylight halides
(which is what we'd use for aquariums) the bulbs are only available in a
universal style so perhaps that is the only way they are made.
>5) Are the ballasts for universal lamps different than those for
>vertical or horiz. lamps?
They don't appear to be.
>6) The ads for the lamps don't indicate CRI. Are they all the same, or
>are some better than others?
There are some significant differences in the way the various lights look,
however I have never seen a CRI for any of them.
>7) Finally, are there any recommendations for how many (and what
>wattage) MH's would be sufficient for our 90 gal.? Is there a fixture
>available that would allow me to use just one stronger lamp to provide
>light across all 4' of the tank?
Well, for what it's worth, for hydroponics a 250 watt system is sufficient
for a 3'x3' to 5'x5' area. However, from various messages that I've read
here, it appears that half or more of the light that reaches the surface of
the water is reflected away, but once the light penetrates into a tank,
almost all of it is reflected within the water. So I would guess that you
would want the 400 watt system. For comparison purposes, the 400 watt 5500K
Daylight Halide is listed as having 32,500 initial lumens while the 6500K
version has 29,000 initial lumens. Also, the 5500K bulb costs $94.95 while
the 6500K bulb costs $104.95.
I'd be interested to hear what you finally decide on. If you don't make
regular updates to the list, please consider e-mailing me.
- - -- dj
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:08:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Petemohan@aol.com
Subject: lighting issues
A number of folks brought up some interesting lighting issues in the
last week. much of this evolved from Steve's request for input regarding
indirect sunlight. Here are a few observations of my own for whatever they
are worth:
Light levels on a cloudy day can be less that 1/20 of those in full
sunlight. Last winter I set up a greenhouse system for coral culture here in
northeast Ohio (where we only see the sun three days a month throughout the
winter because of lake effect cloud cover). Light levels at noon on a
typical grey, dreary day are only about 80 uE in a foot of water. On a
sunny, cloudless day I measure 1500 uE. (For reference, full sunlight just
below the surface of an open body of water might be about 1800 uE.) I'd be
interested in hearing how folks with greenhouses in Seattle, which is
supposed to have similar light conditions in winter, cope.
Measurements I've taken in a couple of brightly lit aquaria confirm that
light levels about half of the noon maximum can nicely accommodate the light
requirements of some of the most light-hungry plants.
The post about using a camera meter to measure light levels offers a
technique that is worth exploring. I outlined a rough method of extending
this to underwater measurements in the February 1994 issue of FAMA.
Conversions from footcandles or lux to PAR are also given. PAR measurements
and/or conversion factors are probably only extremely useful if you want to
compare tanks with different lighting systems or if you need to reference
scientific literature. When I set up my first plant tank I just ignored my
PAR meter and checked the FAQ to see what everyone else was doing <G>.
I wish the sun would come out...April is a long way off.
Pete Mohan
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 23:08:53 -0500
From: Martyn Mitchell <kathmart@istar.ca>
Subject: distorted shoots
Please help! I am in need of opinions. Are the following afflictions
symptomatic of a lack of any specific trace minerals?
1. crypts:
new shoots (1 cm long)double over at the ends and are very contorted.
little or no growth after the above occurs.
2. A. ridgifolious:
4" when planted
no new leaves
no measureable growth since planted (two months)
3. Anubias nana:
tips of new shoots are brown
new leaves remain small
no root growth
4. amazon swords, red temple, java fern:
stunted, slow disintegration over several months
no new leaves
no root growth
5. H. Polysperma and other "weedy" plants:
doing well
I suspect potassium? or boron?
Much appreciated
Martyn
- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 23:12:07 -0500
From: Martyn Mitchell <kathmart@istar.ca>
Subject: distorted shoots
Please help! I am in need of opinions. Are the following afflictions
symptomatic of a lack of any specific trace minerals?
1. crypts:
new shoots (1 cm long)double over at the ends and are very contorted.
little or no growth after the above occurs.
2. A. ridgifolious:
4" when planted
no new leaves
no measureable growth since planted (two months)
3. Anubias nana:
tips of new shoots are brown
new leaves remain small
no root growth
4. amazon swords, red temple, java fern:
stunted, slow disintegration over several months
no new leaves
no root growth
5. H. Polysperma and other "weedy" plants:
doing well
I suspect potassium? or boron?
Much appreciated
Martyn
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 02:28:53 -0500 (EST)
From: JOlson8590@aol.com
Subject: Energy use in plants
A subscriber wrote:
<<This is where I break down to speculation, and someone else could probably
give a better answer. It seems inevitable to me that the plant's task of
providing oxygen to its roots places an energy burden on the plant. If
the roots are kept under aerobic conditions, then the plant doesn't have
that burden, and the energy can be used for growth or fruiting. >>
I think this is a common misunderstanding as to "how plants work." Plants are
not animals - the movement of chemicals, water, sugars, etc., in a plant is
governed by physics, and the plant does not expend any energy to move these
things. Plants can conveniently be thought of as "plumbing systems," where
fluids and dissolved substances move through tubes solely by means of
physical forces that do not depend upon energy input from the plant. IOW, in
terrestrial plants, water moves UP the stem to the leaves by capillary
attraction, and the much heavier sap with sugars from photosynthesis moves
DOWN by weight. I realize that is a DRASTIC oversimplification, but we
should remember that plants do NOT have pumping organs that move things
about, like an animal's bloodstream.
Aquatic plants (Also a large number of terrestrial plants) move oxygen down
to their roots with essentially inert physical mechanisms, i.e. they don't do
any work or use any energy to move the oxygen. The movement of oxygen is
entirely due to the STRUCTURE of the roots.
Still, it is common for us to say things like "Pin Oaks are very weak at
extracting Iron from Alkaline Soils." even though we know full well that this
is not true. We even say "Pin Oaks LIKE (emphasis supplied) Acid Soils." Pin
Oaks do not think, so they really cannot accurately be said to "like"
anything. I suppose we should not be surprised at how we say things - after
all, who has not cussed out an inanimate object they they have just stubbed
their bare toe on? <ggggg>
Pin Oaks do not obtain iron from Alkaline Soils, because Iron is tightly tied
up chemically in Alkaline Soils. Lower the pH of the soil, and the amount of
"free" iron goes up. (In Pin Oaks, there is another mechanism that causes
trouble - Highly alkaline soils give highly basic soil moisture, and the
basic moisture reacts with the iron already present in the tree to chemically
tie it up. Thus, a very young Pin Oak, planted "Balled and Burlapped" in a
calcareous soil may grow quite well, until its roots grow into the
surrounding soil, thus absorbing the alkaline materials, transporting the
alkaline materials throughout the tree, and pretty much dooming the young
plant to Iron Deficiency Chlorosis.) Same with Aquatic Plants. It is much
"easier" to keep iron "available" to our Aquatic Plants when we keep the pH
LOW.
Anyway, don't worry about our Aquatic Plants using energy to move anything
through their tissues. In fact, the only reason DEAD trees stop moving water
through their tissues is the simple fact that, when the top dies, the roots
no longer get carbohydrates from photosynthesis, and simply die of
starvation. The dead roots can't move water because they are decomposing, not
just because they are no longer living. Or, the roots die from, for example,
Phytophera Root Rot, and the rest of the tree dies of dehydration because the
dead roots and root hairs have decomposed and thus stopped moving soil
moisture UP through the tree structure.
I hope this helps.
Cheers!
Jean Olson
JOlson8590@AOL.com
Out in the Boonies, near
Cambridge, Iowa
- ------------------------------
End of Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #1060
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