Thanks mike for the very informative response. Now to drop my ph and hardness! Is there any recommended way of doing this with apistos? I can do it one of two ways that I was thinking. Either the easy way, to throw a bag of peat in, or the harder way, to age water, and do it that way (the way a lot of discus breeders keep their water soft). Would it hurt any to just go the peat moss route? Or should I invest in a large trash container and air pump and age my water? The species I am currently trying to breed include L. Buckelkopf, L. Thayeri. and D. Maculatus. Anyone's experience in this matter is welcome. Stan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!