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Re: [GSAS-Member] Using a Python

Hi,
I don't think you specifically must get the beckett product, it's fine but there are others equally fine. Stress coat for ponds is good too, it's more concentrated dosage so the bottle goes farther, bottle is usually larger, and cost per dose is much lower.
To me the effect of neutralizing chlorine is the relevant effect, every other additive may or may not be useful and I don't pay attention what extras are in the bottle unless it seems like a bad idea. Neutralizing nitrate and ammonia to me is bad. Why would I have to do that, I guess I don't understand. If I have ammonia and nitrate I do a water change. Or remove the fish, ammonia shouldn't be a problem in a properly stocked and cycled tank.
I guess I don't see how products claiming to neutralize stuff are useful. Coworkers have done tests on water treated with such products and got the same results for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as before adding the product. In many cases people substitute such products for doing water changes/maintenance, and then want me to sell them meds to fix their fish diseases. I don't believe such products work and at worst in the hands of the folks who don't do water changes and can't figure out why their fish are sick, well then they are encouraging cruelty to animals.
I don't know, I am not a chemist and I have no idea if you can remove ammonia with a product but it seems that from a common sense point of view after hearing how many people use this stuff and have sick or dead fish it seems better to get a simple chlorine neutralizer with no bells and whistles, add some aquarium salt, and do the water changes. Easier on the fish, easier on the aquarist in the long run as they don't have to spend hours diagnosing and buying chemicals to try and make the fish healthy which also may or may not be of any scientific merit. Less stress. Less cost. Less waste of time and energy. Of course I have a lot of opinions. One is keep it simple. I don't like being jerked around by snake oil salesman and there are a ton of them in unregulated areas like the pet industry. I don't like spending a bunch of money on weird chemicals nobody can prove are necessary for my reef tanks either. So I read a lot before I trust a bottle, a salesperson, a website etc. Wetwebmedia.com is absolutely great if you want a good source of info, it seems to have an answer for everything or they admit if they don't know and refer the question to someone who does.
I probably shouldn't endorse or slam any particular product as the principle of the thing is that simplicity and work pays off more than snake oil and sitting back. Also don't want to get sued by any manufacturers. If they are prone to misleading the public then I suppose they would be equally unlikely to feel bad about misleading a DA or judge and accusing me of negatively impacting their trade. Unfortunately there are a lot of them out there, so naming just one manufacturer would be a drop in the bucket. You should see the stuff we get sent at the store by various agents... Live bacteria guaranteed to end all fish losses! Amazing chlorine neutralizer that buffers the water so that the same ph is good for all fish! Locks heavy metals away safely where they can't harm livestock! At least we don't sell that stuff, but it's offered on other dealers' shelves or in websites. Interestingly the alternative medicine/supplement industry for humans is also largely uninvestigated. Something to keep in mind... There is a company selling herbals for birds that makes a mint, most of the bird breeders I know spend over $100 per month on products called "Guardian Angel" "Survive" "colloidal silver" and other dubious titles. Attorney General of some midwestern state had them investigated, found their little bottles usually did not contain any of the ingredients listed, some were just water. Despite this the products sell and people claim they work, and the manufacturer said that attorney general is just mean and spiteful. I think you really need to watch your butt buying stuff for pets that isn't obviously of merit. I miss the ol 2 drops per gallon stock solution chlorine neutralizer we had in the 70's. Didn't that work fine? As I recall we still aged the water 24 hours to let the bubbles settle out and the temperature rise.
Using cold water is also a good idea, according to what I have read copper and impurities are less likely to be found in the cold water side of your plumbing. Another reason to just age the water and skip the chlorine neutralizer.
Hope I didn't just make it more confusing!
Kate

Trish wrote:

Amquel has come out with something new Calked "Amquel
Plus" this is what smells really bad. The regular
"Amquel" which now I have found only from Dr Foster
and Smith, and only in 1 gal size, doesn't smell bad.
The Amqel Plus has other added bacteria, which says it
is benificial to your fish....well it killed mine. So
I am back to regular Amquel....have been using it for
6 years, no problems.

No Kate, do you use anything for slime coat as well?
Like Nov Aqua? Which goes with the Amquel.....LOL

Trish

PS How large does this Beckett product come? Also do
you know the price?
--- Kate Breimayer <kate@munat.com> wrote:



I personally hate amquel, wouldn't recommend it. I
use a pond dechlorinator from Home despot. If you are using
chlorinated water the chemical that neutralizes it is very cheap and
easily available and there is no reason you should have to use high doses
of any product or extra ingredients to achieve the aim of
neutralizing, and pond products are 2 to 4 times as concentrated as those for
aquariums, come in bigger bottles for the same price, and have identical
ingredients in most cases. Some of the products out there can be
dangerous in some peoples' hands, especially those that use amquel instead of
doing water changes (because it says on the bottle "removes ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate" which has never been my experience.) Also Amquel
smells really bad.
PAT is good.
According to a Jemco.com many cities are being
required by federal law to switch to chloramine which is more difficult to
remove, you will need a special neutralizer for that. If they do it
they are not required to tell you, scary, or it might be in the paper but
if you don't read the news... bad deal.
I age most of my water 2 days to allow gasses to
escape, temp to rise, and chlorine to dissipate. I only use cold water
since supposedly it has less dissolved metals/contaminants. I don't have
space to age water for the really large tanks, hence the use of the Home
Despot product. The Home Depot stuff is by "Beckett" and I have not had
any problems with it, let me know if anyone knows bad things about it!
I see it also works on chloramine so I am covered far as that goes. It
doesn't list ingredients but does say it removes some heavy
metals. Guess we wouldn't know would we?
Congrats on the python, no sense herniating discs
over a simple water change! The cost of the python is quickly recouped
in cancelled trips to massage and chiropractic specialists! :) Not to
mention expensive physical therapy...
Kate

Stewart, Jeffrey wrote:



I think I'm using Amquel currently, and I add it in


as I'm refilling. I figure out approximately how
much I need to add and then add it in thirds as the
tank slowly tops off.


Your back will thank you for getting the python... 

Jeff Stewart

-----Original Message-----
From: gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com


[mailto:gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf
Of A JACOBSON


Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:55 PM
To: gsas-member@thekrib.com
Subject: [GSAS-Member] Using a Python

So, I'm about to break down and buy a python -- or


rather, my back is about

to break down, so I'm going to buy a python to save


it.


I have Seattle tap water, and need to know what to


do about dechlorination.

Do I add the agent to the tank after I've siphoned


off what I'm not going to

use, but before I add the new water? Or do I wait


until I've added all the 

water, and then add the agent?

Also, want to know what people are personally using


for their water change

dechlorinator. I have P.A.T. and Stress Coat, but


am unsure if one is 

superior to the other.

Thanks,

Anita


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