discus gasping at surface

[Kate Breimayer <kate@munat.com>]

Hi,
Saw a post related to fish gasping at the surface on another list, was 
reminded of our earlier topic... is it possible that nitrite or nitrate 
is high? I know discus tanks are susceptible to high waste buildups due 
to their large appetites and that they are also known to be sensitive to 
waste in the water. Maybe do a water change and see what happens? I have 
seen gasping fish recovered with a water change, thought maybe the new 
water or surface agitation had replenished oxygen... might be wrong 
about that.

Hmmm... topic for our newsletter?

This other list recommended reading an article which states that we may 
be seeing an occurance of "brown blood disease" which I had never heard 
of. This apparently happens when nitrite is high in a system, it enters 
the bloodstream through the gills and binds with hemoglobin to form a 
new compound that cannot trasport oxygen. The blood turns brown instead 
of red and the fish can "suffocate" in oxygen rich water, they gasp at 
the surface as if there was no oxygen because they cannot utilize it. 
What is interesting is the normal cycle with a new tank is to experience 
peaks of ammonia which is converted by bacteria into nitrite, then 
another species of bacteria neutralizes nitrite into the less harmful 
but still nasty nitrate. In a new tank the bacteria are not yet at a 
sufficient level to neutralize all this waste, and we have the infamous 
"new tank syndrome" which many fish owners don't even know exists... 
unfortunately. So... in this case it is not a new tank but an 
established one getting a dramatic influx of waste from two new 
inhabitants. First the ammonia would go up, then  nitrite, so maybe 
ammonia wouldn't show in a test kit and the owner wouldn't know the 
water needs a change? I know I had to buy a nitrite test kit for my 
marine tank, and once the tank is cycled theoretically you don't need it 
again. Til it melts down... :) If the ph is low the bacteria die or fail 
to function, according to a guy on the list... so dropping the ph would 
return the tank to a state similar to "new tank syndrome". Typically 
discus owners are advised to drop the ph.
So I recommend a water change is what I am trying to say. And the 
addition of a tsp of salt per gallon. I use it in my tanks, even with 
plants, and the plants are not harmed. Matching the ph is going to be 
necessary if it has been lowered... a pain in the butt but I have done 
it. Low ph also kills other bacteria, apparently, and can have it's 
uses. Asian discus breeders with very clean low ph water supposedly have 
very healthy fish.
Is color of the gills indicative?
Anyways, here is the link, it's an acrobat reader file so not really a 
link in the true sense.

http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/srac/462fs.pdf


The guy on the email list suggests aerating the water.
The fish are already stressed from lack of oxygen and some utilities have less 
dissolved o2 in their systems than others.

Course there was a guy on the list who disagreed with some quotes out of his 
undergrad chem books...


Kate


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