RE: [GSAS-Member] rocks in a 90 gallon

["Hess, Clay A" <clay.a.hess@boeing.com>]

Sooooo, now that I have answered the "Mr Science" part of this
thread....I shall give the subjective piece of the answer.  I think the
rocks you chose Trish are fine, they will look very nice in a display
tank.  Glued together, the chance of them crashing when the fish dig
under them is extremely remote if done right.  Seems the pics I have
seen of the rocks in the rift lakes were typically more of a rounded
boulder style, but, the ones you have chosen will still make a nice
arrangement for a display tank.  
I have seen all styles of breeding tank arrangements and I would not
want a single one, of the tanks that I have seen, in my living room.
They are ugly, certainly not a show piece as you are making.  Yet, they
have their purpose too.  They are easy to maintain and do a great job of
cutting down on the agression of the fish amongst one another.  The
simplest arrangement I have seen was for breeding tropheus and was
composed of chunks of black pvc pipe, tees, and elbows.  Talk about
ugly.....but, incredibly functional for what it was intended to do. Lava
rock can make an interesting display, yet, it still leaves much to be
desired when it comes to simulating the fishes' ancestral environment.
It is lighter than most rock....but, scratches tanks just as readily.
So, if we go back to the "Mr Science" part of our program and talk
tempered glass......it was noted that scratches through the tempered
layer of the glass can be disasterous too.  Just a caution here....it is
not always the weight that will do a tank in.  In fact my last glass
tank failed not at the glass at all....it was a silicone seam that went.
Just as much water hit the floor as if the glass had broken....but, no
pieces of glass to pick up.  Yet, it was enough to get me to swear off
of glass tanks forever.  Or, until one of my plexitanks fails for some
interesting reason, and I am forced to reconsider my approach to tanks
again. Soooooooooo (again)....what is best?  It is all in the eye of the
beholder and the pocketbook too....and the tolerance of the owner as
well.

Oh, one other thang while I am thinking about it.  So, Eric noted
eggcrate as an option to eliminate point loading possibilities and Bob
noted the use of styrofoam if I remember right.  A sheet of plexiglass
in the bottom of the tank will actually do the trick too.  All of these
options also eliminate the concern with scratching the tempered layer of
the glass on the bottom panel of the tank too.  Good options to
consider.

Just my subjective answer to the original question.

Clay

-----Original Message-----
From: matt kaufman [mailto:igotadose@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:43 PM
To: gsas-member@thekrib.com
Subject: RE: [GSAS-Member] rocks in a 90 gallon


my $.02

Lots of big heavy rocks in tanks with cichlids really really really is a
bad 
idea. They dig, and what's worse, when they reproduce and begin flooding
the 
tank with offspring, it becomes impossible to get the offspring out of
the 
tank without a lot of work moving rocks around. Just not worth it. Sand 
under rocks is a *bad* idea. Dig dig dig crash crackle splash!

I used lava rock, which I had in big, 'softball' sized chunks. It hardly

weighs anything, weighs even less when submerged, gets a nice coating of

algae on it and is full of good nooks and crannies for bacteria, plus 
hoisting it out when removing a few hundred julidochromis offspring is
much 
easier than big lake stones or whatever. I got the rocks at a landscape 
supply house, much cheaper than a pet shop.No substrate except in front
of 
the rocks, where I kept some sand.

I also did 'breeding' tanks with PVC for caves, works great though not
that 
attractive. The best breeding setup I saw in a 90 was a 'honeycomb' of
clay 
ceramic hexagonal tubing. My buddy bred malawi cichlids like yours by
the 
handful - males claimed one or two tubes and egg-carrying females would
hide 
out in the tubes. It was cool to watch, you could see the territorial 
disputes. I think the shape of the honeycomb spread the weight around 
nicely, too.

Matt

>From: Trish <snips36@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member 
>chat<gsas-member@thekrib.com>
>To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat 
><gsas-member@thekrib.com>
>Subject: RE: [GSAS-Member] rocks in a 90 gallon
>Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:06:52 -0800 (PST)
>
>Bob-
>
>I have sand as substrate. And their are Africans in
>this tank as well. Iced Blue Zebra{Red tops}7 of them
>and also 4 Yellow Labs.
>
>I do know about the styrafoam, but found this way
>after this tank was set up...for it was orginally just
>a tropical tnak with Goramies, and one time
>Angels.....but the last say 3 or 4 years it has been
>just Africans, so now adding the foam is not possible.
>Well it possible just not wanting to. LoL....
>
>The rocks I am using larger rocks on the bottom, and
>then stack up to smaller ones. And also siliconed
>together rocks with using a pastic crate as frame, and
>made caves, and also a wall so the filter tubes can
>not be seen.
>
>And your right the Africans love to dig!
>
>Trish
>--- Bob and Judy Holmes <jbholmes@nwlink.com> wrote:
>
> > Trish, what kind of fish will be in the tank? Some
> > fish like to move the
> > gravel around which can undermine the rocks, causing
> > them to shift. Could
> > be disastrous. I used a piece of 1/2" styrofoam
> > under the substrate & rocks
> > in my Tanganyikan cichlid tank to prevent the point
> > loading Clay mentioned.
> > You'd have to tear the tank down to install it.
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > At 11:25 PM 2/27/2005 -0800, you wrote:
> > >Sooooooooo, without doing all the math and research
> > to see what glass
> > >can handle and having put some crazy huge rocks in
> > tanks of glass with
> > >no visible side effects.....I will give my best
> > guess if you like.  If
> > >you do not "point load" the glass you will be fine
> > with whatever rock
> > >you place in the tank.  Soooooo, what does "point
> > load" mean?  It means
> > >do not place all the weight on one tiny spot on the
> > tank floor.  If your
> > >rock has sand underneath it to help dissipate the
> > load across the glass
> > >tank floor you will be fine.  If you let the rock
> > sink through the sand
> > >such that all the weight could potentially rest on
> > one point on the
> > >glass floor you could be in for some issues.
> > >I can give you an example of what happens with
> > point loads in airplanes.
> > >If you get on an airplane in tennis shoes the
> > aircraft floor will
> > >support the load easily, as it is spread out over
> > the entire shoe base,
> > >and you will make it to your seat.  If you get on
> > an airplane in stileto
> > >heels and try to accomplish the same thing, you
> > will find the heels
> > >punching holes in the floor and it will be very
> > difficult to make it to
> > >your seat.
> > >Sooooo, it is all about the number of pounds per
> > square inch you are
> > >placing on your floor, be it glass or foam core
> > aluminum panels.  I am
> > >sure if you wish to do a little surfing online you
> > can find the pounds
> > >per square inch your glass is designed to handle.
> > Doing some quick
> > >estimates of your tank size....and I could be off a
> > bit.  If I assume
> > >your tank dimensions to be about 2'x4' on the base
> > and assuming the
> > >weight of water and rock to be about 10 lbs/gallon
> > of tank space.  You
> > >come to 900 lbs/1152 square inches or .781
> > lbs/square inch.  Doing a
> > >little surfing myself, here are some average glass
> > strength values
> > >Annealed Glass 6,000 psi, Tempered Glass  24,000
> > psi.  These values are
> > >based on a Typical Breaking Stress (large light 60
> > sec. load).  This is
> > >all fine and good, but, your load from rocks will
> > not be a typical 60
> > >sec. load.  Even so, you can see glass can take a
> > heck of a load
> > >compared to what you are currently putting on your
> > tank.
> > >Soooo, all that said, be careful.  If you are truly
> > working with
> > >tempered glass you need to make sure you do not
> > scratch it near where
> > >your higher loads are placed on the bottom.  Simple
> > scratches in
> > >tempered glass can be a invitation to disaster as
> > the glass will shatter
> > >easily once the surface has been damaged. This is
> > why you cannot cut
> > >tempered glass by etching it and snapping it.
> > >Wanna learn more about glass than you could ever
> > imagine.....check this
> >
> >out.....http://www.glassonweb.com/glassmanual/topics/index/tempered.h
> >tm
> > >
> > >Now, your house floors.....there is another load
> > issue.....but, that is
> > >another discussion.  One quick suggestion here
> > though....do not build
> > >your aquarium stands on stiletto heels.
> > >
> > >Clay
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Susan Welenofsky
> > [mailto:welenofsky@comcast.net]
> > >Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:21 PM
> > >To: 'Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat'
> > >Subject: RE: [GSAS-Member] rocks in a 90 gallon
> > >
> > >
> > >The bottom is probably tempered glass, so it will
> > be extra strong. I
> > >would contact All Glass and ask them to be sure. I
> > would like to see a
> > >picture of your wall and tank!
> > >
> > >Susan
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com
> > >[mailto:gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf
> > Of Trish
> > >Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:15 PM
> > >To: Fish List
> > >Subject: [GSAS-Member] rocks in a 90 gallon
> > >
> > >I need a question answered. And hoping someone here
> > >can help me.
> > >
> > >I need to know how much rock can a 90 gallon hold.
> > It
> > >is an All Glass Aquarium, is on a wood stand, with
> > >only the plastic bar which comes across the middle
> > on
> > >the bottom. I have no plywood underneath. Tank is
> > >filled and has been running now for 5 years, so
> > >putting one underneath is not an option.
> > >
> > >Thanks in advance!
> > >
> > >Trish
> > >
> > >BY the way my rock wall is finished and is going in
> > >this tank, but have exsiting rock in here
> > >already.....so need to know how much wieght it can support. I let
> > >it cure now for 4 days.
> > Outside....so
> > >no oder left.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________
> > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > >Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> > search. Learn more.
> > >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >GSAS-Member mailing list
> > >GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
> >
> >http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >GSAS-Member mailing list
> > >GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
> >
> >http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >GSAS-Member mailing list
> > >GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
> >
> >http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GSAS-Member mailing list
> > GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
> >
>http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> >
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
>http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>_______________________________________________
>GSAS-Member mailing list
>GSAS-Member@thekrib.com 
>http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member

_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member