John: The consequences of inbreeding are best observed with "fancy" domestic strains like bettas, angels, guppies, and such. These fish are intentionally inbreed to produce a desired property or trait. Strains are kept "pure" by not out crossing the lineage. So from the above examples it seems like inbreeding can occur for quite a long time before effects are significant. It may be possible that defects are hidden by culls or the parents may no longer raise young (angels & rams). So for a wild fish you hope to keep "wild" the answer is to collect many pairs and to maintain a population across as many hobbyists as possible with some periodic out-crossing. So for example I gave a friend a single pair of Endlers. Since all the prodigy are from the single male he would like to get a second male from me or another hobbyist. They may be closely related so he would also like to order Endlers from an outside source (and get a few more color morphs) to keep the gene pool full. Spreading pairs around also help when a fish room goes down. For kribs, there is no danger of them disappearing from the aquarium hobby in that they are quite widespread but for some of the killies in particular the danger of losing a wild collected strain is real as there may only be a person or two with the strain in captivity. -Paul On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, it was written:
Clay, and other members,I found answers on this members listserve to each subject I had concerns about. Ecological issues, health issues, and I even stated my concerns regarding silicone toxicity. One last issue I have concerns about, is the inbreeding of fish in the aquarium community. I'd enjoy getting other people's opinions on that subject.We see problems in human beings, such as dramatic increases in rates of cancer, learning disabilities, heart disease, etc. While most of these are lifestyle and environmental contamination related, we are using heroic efforts that allow people to reproduce that never would have been able to in the past. There is no correct answer whether this is good or bad, right or wrong, it just is, and we have to accept it. But back to fish, many aquarium fish are the progeny of relatively few breeding fish. In researching some fish I recently got, the literature clearly states, that this inbreeding has caused certain fish lines to be unhealthy. My question is, what can we do about this, when breeding fish? I have not gotten into breeding, but I have a mated pair of Kribs, so it is just a matter of time.John On Mar 27, 2005, at 10:49 PM, Hess, Clay A wrote: John,Thanks....your question is the type I enjoy......it makes a person think. The research in answering questions such as yours is always educational and interesting to me. I will see if Steev would like to include this in the newsletter.Clay -----Original Message----- From: John Ruhland [mailto:john@drruhland.com] Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 12:38 AM To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chatSubject: Re: Subject: [GSAS-Member] UV light to control algae,ecological consequences of using bogwoodClay, I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this article. It would be worth submitting it for publication in the newsletter. Regarding the African workers who collect the bogwood, it is really painful knowing that they and many people throughout the world are forced into work that destroys their environment, without receiving more than a pittance. They know the damage they are doing to the earth that supports them, and it causes them emotional pain to participate in those activities, but their crying babies are a constant reminder that the alternative is starvation, as one sees in the award-winning 1999 documentary "The Charcoal People." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0245034/ Then again, another perspective is to look at how we go and blast a country with bombs. Efforts to save the world may be better directed at working to mitigate the really serious offenses like that, yet it is my opinion that it is always worth evaluating the consequences of as many of our actions as we can stand to evaluate without becoming paralyzed by depression. Thank you, John On Mar 27, 2005, at 12:12 AM, Hess, Clay A wrote:Hmmmmm, so, I found another interesting question to talk a little about. "Does anyone know if there are negative ecological consequences to using bogwood. Are we destroying habitat or doing other harm by using it, as we are when we use peat?" First, let me state, I believe that protecting and helping the environment are noble causes. It would be fantastic if we could live on this planet without impacting our environment. However, placing 5+ billion organic life forms, the size of humans, on a small sphere the size of Planet Earth seems to be the wrong approach to "living on a planet without impacting it's environment". With this disclaimer made, let me see if I can offer a little insight on our hobby and it's impact to the environment. Let's start with the original question about bogwood. First, let me state that bogwood is a generic term, in the aquarium hobby, for any of a number of tree parts (from a number of tree species) that have a density greater than water. This simply means, when the wood is placed in water......yep, it sinks. With this noted, there is one type of wood that tends to be sold more than others for this purpose. The "bogwood" most often sold in the aquarium industry is mopane (Colophospermum mopane). Pronounced "mo-PAHN-eh". What is mopane? Throughout southern Africa, mopane is the predominant large tree that forms dense stands of woodland in low-lying river valley bottoms of the Zambezi and its tributaries. Mopane is a tree of the dry sub-tropical savanna rather than a rain forest tree. It's an important part of the savanna ecosystem, for its leaves are unusually high in proteins and the wood is hard and tough, the first choice for slow-burning firewood (according to Niles Eldridge, Life in the Balance pp 10ff). These trees are fed on by a long list of African wildlife, including elephants, gazelles and moths (caterpillar form, the mopane worm, an important human food source). The trees also provide anesting location for a number of bird types including the hornbills. The mopanewoodlands support some of the largest and most significant wildlife populations in all of Africa. Unfortunately, the mopane woodland region is really not that large a part of Africa. Fortunately, about 45% of the mopane woodland region is habitat protected by various forms of state and private conservation. Land transformation and degradation through agriculture, settlement and livestock grazing poses some threat to the ecoregion, particularly in South Africa and Swaziland, where population densities are as high as 174 persons per km2 (Els 1996) and large-scale agricultural plans have been introduced (Stalmans and Peel 1999). What does this all mean relative to our original question? The point, here, is there is an ongoing threat to the mopane woodlands due to human pressures on the region. By providing a market demand for mopane in a multi-billion dollar industry such as the aquarium industry, further human demands are placed on the mopane woodlands. In a poor agricultural region such as the mopane woodlands, human pressures are normally low. However, areas such as the mopane woodlands become increasingly pressured as human population grows and market demands increase. Sooooo, again.....what does this all mean? I believe most of us in the aquarium industry are familiar with the negative impact our hobby has had on reef life in the Phillipines. The demand for live corals and pretty salt water fish drove an unregulated demand upon this region to a point where the reefs were decimated. I am not saying the mopane woodlands are near as sensitive as the Phillipine reefs, yet, there are similarities here. Reefs grow and thrive in very limited ecoregions for a number of reasons. Similarly, the mopane woodlands grow and thrive in a very limited ecoregion. Overgrazing or over-harvesting can produce devastating imbalances in a reef zone. Again, similarly, overgrazing or over-harvesting can devastate forests or woodlands. Once destroyed, it takes many many years for a reef to recover. Finally, once destroyed, it is very very rare to see a forest or woodland re-established in an unprotected ecoregion. With this, I will let the reader decide if "there are negative ecological consequences to using bogwood. Are we destroying habitat or doing other harm by using it, as we are when we use peat?" This was written to offer the reader a chance to consider the issue a little more in-depth. I am not trying to say that putting bogwood in your fishtank is a bad thing. I am simply offering the aquarist an opportunity to consider the potential consequences of their actions. As with any information, it is best not to lose sight of the bigger picture too. There are many human driven impacts to this Planet, is buying bogwood one of the most significant? I seriously doubt it. Yet, for every action....there is a reaction. Clay --- John Ruhland <john@drruhland.com> wrote:I was so busy this week, I'm just now able to give a follow-up report on my use of the UV light for the blue-green "algae." This life form is small enough that the pleated filter of the Magnum 350 did not filter any out. I did not try precipitating it out, although that may have been my next step if the UV light had not worked. Originally, the algae suspended in the water was clouding the water so much that one could see maybe 4 to 6 inches in. After 6 hours using the UV light, it was about 8 to 10 inches. 24 hours after that, so 30 hours after first using the light, one could see the color of the wall through the tank, and an additional 24 hours later, it was nearly normal. At this time, I moved the light to another tank, where two of my Kenyi have developed a nasty-looking infection. They have been fighting while I quickly try to get another tank running in order to be able to separate them. John (Still looking for more hiding places for the fish as well, if anyone else bogwood, clay pipes or rocks that would be appropriate for the Kenyi African Cichlides (they are about 6-7 inches long). Sorry, I will not be able to make the auction. : ( Does anyone know if there are negative ecological consequences to using bogwood. Are we destroying habitat or doing other harm by using it, as we are when we use peat? Is it practical to use wood from our area, and just submerge and waterlog it? I'm afraid that it will work its way loose, shoot up to the surface, and damage light or cover. Thank you _______________________________________________ GSAS-Member mailing list GSAS-Member@thekrib.comhttp://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ _______________________________________________ GSAS-Member mailing list GSAS-Member@thekrib.com http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member _______________________________________________ GSAS-Member mailing list GSAS-Member@thekrib.com http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-memberDr. John F. RuhlandThe Natural Health Medical Clinic 4002 - 25th Avenue S, Seattle, WA 98108 206-723-4891 www.drruhland.com _______________________________________________ GSAS-Member mailing list GSAS-Member@thekrib.com http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member _______________________________________________ GSAS-Member mailing list GSAS-Member@thekrib.com http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-memberDr. John F. RuhlandThe Natural Health Medical Clinic 4002 - 25th Avenue S, Seattle, WA 98108 206-723-4891 www.drruhland.com _______________________________________________ GSAS-Member mailing list GSAS-Member@thekrib.com http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
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