Re: [GSAS-Member] Safe in Tank Acrylic Sandpaper

[John Ruhland <john@drruhland.com>]

Matt,
I come from the perspective of treating people with Multiple Chemical 
Sensitivities.
It is my perspective that other animals would do well if treated the 
best way we know
of treating people, especially in terms of prevention. My main point is 
that I recommend
reducing exposure to substances that animals may not be able to handle, 
as they are
foreign to their new environments.

My recommendation is that if a product has a strong odor, avoid its 
use. Not all clear hoses
are vinyl, and not all vinyl hoses have the same amount of odor. Vinyl 
is perhaps the cheapest
hosing. Use your judgment in determining what you use.

Cumulative damage is something we see in many older people, like damage 
to joints - osteoarthritis,
skin damage from UV light, cataracts from free radical damage. I'm not 
sure why you say I am proving
this through blatant assertion. I am simply stating things I see. What 
kind of proof are you seeking?

Regarding the term rock wool, yes, I stated that that is fiberglass. 
Several fish store sales people
called that rock wool, so that is what I started calling it when I talk 
to aquarium people.

You are giving up before even making a stand if you say that the 
industry will not change from our
pressure. I would prefer trying to change wrongful practices and 
failing, rather then never even trying.
That is why I am giving my input in an area that I am new to. I would 
like to encourage you to
encourage new ideas, and continually re-examining old practices.

John



On Apr 6, 2005, at 9:08 AM, matt kaufman wrote:


> For those breeding fish, chemical exposures may be even more of an  
> issue than are mechanical
> harm to fish. Any substance that may cause damage to RNA or DNA should 
>  be avoided in that case.
> I would recommend waiting much longer than the minimum curing time for 
>  silicone sealants, avoiding vinyl hoses, etc.

Avoiding vinyl hoses? Should we weave them from palm fronds? I have had 
numerous successful long term breeding setups using recirculating 
systems where vinyl hose was an integral part of the water distribution 
mechanism. Rubber hose was much worse to use, made the water smell bad 
and didn't hold up as well.
> Items that may harm gills or other organs or tissue are more important 
>  to avoid for fish that live a long time.

What fish live a long time that we would breed in captivity (compared 
to the wild. Are there any old fish in the wild?) Fish live *way* 
longer in captivity than in nature. No predators. No habitat 
destruction (at least, no intentional habitat destruction in 
captivity.)

> Here, long term cumulative damage will impact the longevity of the 
> fish.

Will impact? All you have here is proof by blatant assertion
> For instance, my 3 Leporinus will live well over one decade if they 
> are  not harmed while in my care.
>
> Fish that only live a few years probably will not have time to  
> accumulate damage, and thus
> something like household dust (often high in heavy metals in older  
> homes with old paint), fiberglass
> (ie. rock wool), etc., may not be of as much concern.
Umm, do they still make rock wool avaialble in the aquarium trade? 
Modern fiberglass isn't mineral wool anymore.
> Asbestos,  fiberglass, and heavy metals can
> cause harm to both cellular components and organs in humans, and  
> probably also in fish.

Fiberglass can cause cellular harm in humans? Do you have a reference 
for this? I won't argue about heavy metals, Asbestos I thought was more 
irritant and hence led to lung cancer than mutagen
> I recommend that we avoid easily-avoided exposures.
Remember first and foremost that fishkeeping is a hobby that has been 
around for millenia and most fish do fine in properly dechloraminated 
tapwater, living way longer lives than in nature and reproducing way 
more successfully than in nature as well
> Then the less  easily avoidable exposures are
> less likely to put our pets beyond their threshold of tolerable toxic  
> exposures. The air pollutants that
> get into the water, the heavy metals our tap water leaches out of the  
> pipes, the heavy metals in the
> fish food and rocks and gravel - these are harder to control.
>
> Consider avoiding buying plants rooted in rock wool, lead strips for  
> sinking plants, soft plastics with carcinogenic
> plasticizers. The industry will find good substitutes if we stop 
> buying  products that harm our fish.

The pet industry is more irresponsible and greedy than most, I doubt 
buying plants not rooted in rock wool (didn't think they still used 
that, but maybe they do) or lead sinkers (have these *ever* been shown 
to do anything worse than oxidize when submerged?) or whatever will 
make any difference to them. The experienced aquarium hobbyist just 
plain doesn't have enough economic impact for the pet industry to 
notice.

Efforts would be better spent and lead to more successful fishkeeping 
if, for instance, we could lobby for expiration dates on food and water 
treatment chemicals, real lists of ingredients, real guaranteed 
analyses, some truth in advertising, real consumer testing of products 
(eliminating marine water pumps made with iron shafts that rust out, 
stuff like that.) The practices of the pet fish industry are borderline 
abhorrent, but lead sinkers and rock wool bases for plants aren't even 
in the top 100 of the problems that should be fixed. All this IMHO much 
like the original poster was, I'm sure.

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Dr. John F. Ruhland
The Natural Health Medical Clinic
4002 - 25th Avenue S, Seattle, WA 98108
206-723-4891
www.drruhland.com
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