[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index][Index by Month]
Re: [GSAS-Member] big cichlid appetites...
Matt,
I appreciate hearing other people's ideas on absorption of vitamins via
non-oral routes. Many factors influence the absorption. One of the most
important is posology, the science of dosing. While a compounding
pharmacist would be one type of expert to speak with, here is the
perspective of a Naturopathic Physician who practices Orthomolecular
Medicine:
After seeing the liquid multivitamins that are sold for fish, I believe
it that your lack of result results adding them to the water is due to
use of very low doses. I give megadoses. I take into account how much
volume is in the aquarium, and compare it to the volume of an average
size human body. Then I dose according to human megadosing levels (not
one-a-day or theragram-M, neither of which offer therapeutic doses for
people with diseases.)
In humans, oral absorption is much slower than through the mucous
membranes (sinuses, eyes, rectum) and the lungs. Absorption of
nutrients through the skin is also faster, as it does not have the
delay in the stomach.
Here are some examples from the human pharmacy of synthesized drugs.
Cortisone inhalers, while they depress the immune system, give almost
instant effects in life-threatening situations like anaphylactic shock.
We also drive vitamins through the skin using DMSO for immediate
absorption. The drug companies have been working on an inhaled form of
insulin, which previously was given intramuscularly in order to achieve
100% absorbtion. Many minerals are very poorly absorbed orally, but if
given in the above mentioned forms, are absorbed 100%.
From herbalists we learn that foot baths using herbal teas or other
extracts, allow for very rapid absorption. Some herbalists, including
the very famous Maurice Messegue of France, only use that form of
administration.
While the scales of the fish blocks some of the surface area, I imagine
their protective coat works much like mucous membranes, allowing
absorbtion of nutrients and excretion of wastes between the scales. The
gills would appear to be even more ideal for absorption than are human
lungs.
Lastly, my own experience with two fish that were given up for dead by
people much more experienced than I am with fish, give individual case
studies demonstrating efficacy of non-oral routes of absorption. I'd be
happy to take the challenge if anyone has a sick fish, to try to nurse
it back to health in this way. Of course, I'd still recommend Steev as
the expert if it is a favorite fish, or if it needs surgical biopsy or
other such intervention. I'm not able to offer any guarantees, nor
would you incur any charges for this type of humane experiment.
Regards,
John
On Mar 6, 2006, at 1:32 PM, matt kaufman wrote:
OH, don't bother with Vitamins. The only way to get them into fish is
into their food and I doubt he's suffering from appetite loss due to
that. Try the earthworm thing They don't absorb much as a rule from the
surrounding water unless its through the gills which is respiratory
stuff not digestive things. I've never found dosing a tank with
Vitamins to make any difference whatsoever.
From: Victorea Earnest <victoreae@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member
chat<gsas-member@thekrib.com>
To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat
<gsas-member@thekrib.com>
Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] big cichlid appetites...
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:38:14 -0800 (PST)
Thank you both.
He has broken a heater in the past(it was shiney and
therefore asking for it...) so that was one of the
first things I checked. He has a 50 gallon to himself
with a couple of flower pots.
I haven't given him vitamins in a while, I'll get some
more of those and check his pH.
--- matt kaufman <igotadose@hotmail.com> wrote:
> What sized tank? Is everything else ok - like, if
> he's destroyed the heater
> or bitten through the cord, this can put them off,
> too (had that happen with
> my big Geo. 'jurupari' which had smashed an eheim
> heater with his head).
>
> Try some live earthworms from the yard. If he
> doesn't eat those, I'd be
> *very* concerned. Just wash them well and drop them
> in. Agree with Steev it
> sounds like something else is going on .
>
>
> >From: steev ward <steevward@earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member
> >chat<gsas-member@thekrib.com>
> >To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat
> <gsas-member@thekrib.com>
> >Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] big cichlid appetites...
> >Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:47:40 -0800
> >
> >Victorea-
> >Have you tried Freeze-dried krill? Fish really like
> them and it makes a
> >good treat, plus it enhances the red color.
> Sometimes inappetance is
> >caused by a vitamin deficiency. You might even try
> a calcium supplement.
> >
> >Check the pH too. Big cichlids will stop eating
> when the water gets too
> >acidic. Sounds strange but I used to see it all the
> time with some
> >Oscars I had.
> >
> >Steev
> >
> >Victorea Earnest wrote:
> >
> > > hi... My red devil seems to have lost his
> appetite in
> > > the last month or so. He seems his usual
> belligerent
> > > self otherwise, lunges at anyone who walks by,
> digs
> > > lots of holes, and threatens the cats and his
> own
> > > reflection... Gets very offended by the gravel
> vac...
> > > And he looks OK, not skinny or anything...
> > >
> > > But where he used to gobble up about 4 of the
> big
> > > pellets a day, he now eats only one or 2 every
> couple
> > > of days. I tried giving him other things to eat
> but he
> > > doesn't care, just lets it float around until I
> get
> > > disgusted and remove it. He's very enthusiastic
> when
> > > I open the tank to try to feed him, but he is
> much
> > > more excited about the possibility of actually
> biting
> > > my fingers this time than he is about the food.
> If I
> > > drop it in there he won't eat it.
> > >
> > > Maybe I was over feeding him before? Or do they
> just
> > > eat less when they are done growing? I've had
> him for
> > > two and a half years and I got him as a tiny
> gray fry.
> > > I hope he's not sick.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GSAS-Member mailing list
> > > GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
> > >
>
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >GSAS-Member mailing list
> >GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
>
>http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get
> it now!
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GSAS-Member mailing list
> GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
>
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
Dr. John F. Ruhland
The Natural Health Medical Clinic
4002 - 25th Avenue S, Seattle, WA 98108
206-723-4891
www.drruhland.com
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member