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[GSAS-Member] Subject Should be FISH Please
Thank you Lisa.
The discussion began as Galaxy Rasbora Tetras and THAT is what I was
referring to for employee wages and store overhead. Somehow the subject
turned to dogs and cats, which is not what the aquarium club is about. If
you want to talk about those two species, my suggestion is join a dog or cat
club and complain about it there.
I do not enjoy being misquoted and I certainly don't want to bash ANY stores
or businesses, and don't want it done here of all places!! If you want to
complain, then I suggest you take it up with the business you believe may be
doing this, or design your own website/forum.
Susan Welenofsky
-----Original Message-----
From: gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com
[mailto:gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of maus@llarian.net
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 11:11 AM
To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat
Subject: [GSAS-Member] Can we be kind with each other?
Phono and List,
I don't think a personal admonishment is what Susan intended (if
that's how it sounded to you). She asked generally for consideration
when targeting out specific stores before making any claims that they
might be involved with puppy mills. That it is best to first do some
direct discovery. I didn't see anything about saying that you
specifically were wrong... but warned, that it could possibly bring
ill favor to the club if it's members start with accusations before
doing all the fact finding. However, I didn't particularly understand
the reasoning about employees and paying overhead, and how selling
puppies and kitties helps stores reach that goal. But, I think he
intention was to bring up hypothetical situations which impact a
store's decision making with how they choose to display and sell
their inventory in order to balance returns.
I'm not aware that the GSAS has standards for which stores they will
allow sponsorship from. I'm new, so I might have missed something
like that. Perhaps that's a more constructive focus of discussion?
Perhaps instead of raising questions, and if you are so concerned...
you could provide us with some facts and answers... doing a bit of
leg work, that would be very helpful and support your position
solidly. Or perhaps asking list members to help you in your quest for
more knowledge? But, then... I would ask (not as a moderator, but as
a list reader) that you take this search off list until there is
something solid to report.
I know that Reef Frontiers doesn't allow for negative discussions
about stores (LFS related, or even hardware and glass places) for the
specific reason that people will often latch on to these issues to
the detriment of the lists, discussion forums, and civility between
forum members. I agree with you, that it is good and wise to be made
aware of the policies of the places you choose to buy LS from... but
I also agree with a policy that would require that each member is
responsible for making their own decisions about animal welfare
issues, best business practices, and the like (and that activism and
advocacy is generally not appropriate)... and to strive to keep the
lists a place where everyone feels comfortable to come and practice
their hobby without fear of becoming inadvertently tangled in a flame
war.
Lisa Chan
On Dec 30, 2006, at 10:35 AM, Phono Graffiti wrote:
> So what you are saying is, the GSAS is sponsored by stores which
> may or may not sell puppy mill puppies. But since they have to pay
> employees, thats fine, and its wrong of me to be concerned or raise
> any questions about these places.
>
> Thanks for letting me know.
>
>
>> From: "SUSAN WELENOFSKY" <welenofsky@comcast.net>
>> Reply-To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat<gsas-
>> member@thekrib.com>
>> To: "'Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat'" <gsas-
>> member@thekrib.com>
>> Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Denny's has galaxy rasboras: $25 each
>> Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:49:05 -0800
>>
>> Denny's is pretty good store, and I doubt that they would sell
>> pets from a
>> mill. Many pet stores are selling animals from shelters. I think most
>> puppies from mills are privately sold through newspapers or
>> Craig's List, or
>> by word-of-mouth. If you are not sure what the stores pet policy
>> is, then it
>> would be wise not slam them, as they are or may be one of our
>> sponsors that
>> helps keep our club running. Remember that pet stores are
>> businesses trying
>> to survive, pay their employees and overhead.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com
>> [mailto:gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of matt kaufman
>> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:33 PM
>> To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat
>> Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Denny's has galaxy rasboras: $25 each
>>
>> If common to the trade, where else are they available in the
>> Seattle area?
>> >From what I've been able to find out they're not the most easily
>> bred nor
>> prolific rasbora. $25 for a little reddish fish is pretty high,
>> but do any
>> other shops have them? Even back in NJ they're going for around
>> $20/each
>> when you can find them. Even if you could mail-order them for $10/
>> fish,
>> airport shipping would drive the price probably to near $20 for a
>> lot of 6
>> of them.
>>
>> Hopefully it won't be as bad as the Melanotaenia praecox nonsense
>> of a few
>> years back where females weren't distributed (like is done with most
>> gouramis today.)
>>
>> I agree with Susan - Denny's is a great pet shop and holding its
>> own against
>> the Petcos/Petstupids of the world and we should try to support
>> them. I only
>> wish they didn't sell kittens and puppies :-(
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > From: onefish2fish@comcast.net> To: gsas-member@thekrib.com>
>> Date: Fri, 29
>> Dec 2006 20:10:37 -0800> Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Denny's has
>> galaxy
>> rasboras: $25 each> > These fish are easily bred and fairly common
>> in the
>> trade. In 3 months they > will be available for less than $3 each.
>> Let
>> people who are charging more > than that feed their fish for the
>> next 3
>> months...> Tom> West Hyblos Creek Drainage> Washington State>
>> ----- Original
>> Message ----- > From: "SUSAN WELENOFSKY" <welenofsky@comcast.net>>
>> To:
>> "'Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat'" >
>> <gsas-member@thekrib.com>> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:42
>> PM> Subject:
>> Re: [GSAS-Member] Denny's has galaxy rasboras: $25 each> > > >
>> Denny's Pet
>> World is a great fish and pet store, and I would recommend > >
>> them> >
>> highly to any person. Their saltwater and freshwater filtration
>> system is> >
>> awesome. The tanks are clean and fish healthy. They are wonderful
>> to do> >
>> business with and I have never had any problems wi!
>> th them. Of course if > > you> > want a new unheard of species
>> you are
>> going to pay a premium price. At > > least> > there is a store
>> that is
>> willing to carry them instead of the same old> > boring fish we
>> always see!>
>> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: gsas-member-
>> bounces@thekrib.com> >
>> [mailto:gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of Tom Watson>
>> > Sent:
>> Friday, December 29, 2006 7:30 PM> > To: Greater Seattle Aquarium
>> Society
>> member chat> > Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Denny's has galaxy
>> rasboras: $25
>> each> >> > Best not to do business with people who take advantage
>> of a
>> craze. > > Charging> > you 4 or 5 times their own cost is not
>> customer
>> oriented pricing. Shops > > in> > it for the long haul are looking
>> for
>> return customers and treat them > > right.> > Tom> > West Hyblos
>> Creek
>> Drainage> > Washington State> > ----- Original Message ----- > >
>> From: "Matt
>> Staroscik" <matt@wrongcrowd.com>> > To: "Greater Seattle Aquarium
>> Society
>> member chat" > > <gsas-member@thekr!
>> ib.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 2:13 PM> > Subject:
>> [GSAS-M
>> ember] Denny's has galaxy rasboras: $25 each> >> >> >>I was in
>> there for
>> some reef stuff and happened to overhear the> >> employees
>> talking... They
>> just got in a bag of these fish to sell. There> >> are also some
>> in the 30
>> gal display tank--the cube at the front of the> >> fish room.> >>>
>> >> These
>> fish look pretty nice in person, but I'll wait for the price to>
>> >> come
>> down!> >>> >> - Matt S.> >>
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