Re: [GSAS-Member] CO2 Question

[Erik Olson <erik@thekrib.com>]

Rex's store shows some nice mini-manifolds that use 10-32 plugs.  Helpful 
for inline, or maybe screwing in a bunch of little clippard valves, but 
I'd be wary of hanging something heavier like a Fabco valve off those 
things (though maybe if they are structurally supported by a front panel 
in addition to the manifold?).

I've also made a 1/8" NPT manifold out of tees before -- it works decently 
enough and you can buy the parts locally at plumbing stores.  Then it's 
just a matter of finding the needle valve you're happy with.

I think back in ancient times I had a 2-swagelok manifold using 
stiff-but-bendable copper tubing and one of their compression Tees.  It 
kept getting bent.

   - Erik


On Sun, 18 Oct 2009, Paul M. Wallace wrote:

> Kypros,
>
> Paranoia had me place the bubble counter withe the check valves in the sump 
> along with the in port to the reactor.  Is something did leak at least the 
> floor wold stay dry.
>
> Is there a good site to but manifods, valves, and check valves?  Rex in 
> Portland was great last I checked but that was some time ago.
>
> -Paul
>
>
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2009, Hostetter, Kypros wrote:
>
>> Makes sense to me too Paul.  Perhaps my plastic check valves were even
>> cheaper than yours, but one of mine ended up leaking a bunch of water over
>> the floor. Plastic ones are certainly cheaper than the brass ones that cost
>> about $10.00 online.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Paul M. Wallace <pwallace@u.washington.edu
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep,
>>>
>>> I second the "have just done the same dumb things for a long time."  As
>>> nothing happens to the tanks unless I am setting up something new or
>>> simplifying maintenance in some incremental step.
>>>
>>> For example I only have 2 tanks on CO2 with the cheapest inline plastic
>>> valves you can find.  Oh well.  The trick is to maintain a 'high pressure'
>>> side after the regulator, before the needle so that changing the needle
>>> valve settings do not effect other tanks.  I vote regulator, solenoid,
>>> needle valve, check valve, bubble counter, shortest run possible to the
>>> tank.  This puts most of the components under low stress (5-10 psi?) and
>>> minimizes the impacts of leaks.   Multiple solenoids would go after a
>>> splitter.
>>>
>>> If anyone finds a decent price on 4-6 way with metal needle valve I would
>>> like to hear more :)
>>>
>>> -Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, Erik Olson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kypros, do you have one solenoid for the entire rig, or do you run one
>>> per
>>>> needle valve?  And if the latter, where do you place the solenoid in the
>>>> flow? (i.e. right at the needle valve, right near the tank, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Also, where do you obtain your metal check valves?
>>>>
>>>> Remember that "super experienced" can also mean "have just done the same
>>>> dumb things for a long time." :)
>>>>
>>>>   - Erik
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, Hostetter, Kypros wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree you will have to have three needle valves. I have a Sumo
>>> regulator
>>>>> with a dual manifold and I have the solenoids.  It felt better to me to
>>> give
>>>>> the co2 a break at, and they work fine for me, running about 25 feet for
>>>>> each line.  But I know that many super experienced guys like Erik go
>>> without
>>>>> solenoids.  Also it can kind of be annoying to run that many timers
>>> using
>>>>> the Solenoids.  I got the swagelok needle valves, little cheaper than
>>> the
>>>>> Ideal valves, and they seem to work pretty well. Sumo could rig it all
>>> up
>>>>> for you, including the bubble counters-makes it easy, but not cheap.
>>>  You'll
>>>>> love switching out from DIY, though.  I too use the black drip line per
>>>>> Erik's suggestion, real cheap!  If you dont like the black entering your
>>>>> tank, you can buy a small amount of flexible C02 line and just use it
>>> where
>>>>> it it visible, and connect it to your black cheap line via the check
>>> valve
>>>>> you will need anyway. By the way, get brass check valves. When I was
>>> doing
>>>>> DIY CO2 I got away with plastic check valves, but they quickly failed
>>> under
>>>>> the higher pressure CO2.  As an alternative to the reactors you can use
>>>>> cheap glass ADA knockoff diffusers, they work pretty well too. *
>>>>> E.g., *
>>>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Rhinox-5000-Glass-CO2-diffuser-Pollen-Aquarium-Beetle_W0QQitemZ250305228880QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a475ab050
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, if you do get the JBJ bubble counters, dont make the mistake I
>>> did
>>>>> and let them run after the water evaporates, I cracked both of mine when
>>>>> they were dry and had to replace them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 7:42 PM, Erik Olson <erik@thekrib.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you'll need to have three needle valves for this to work.  You
>>>>>> cannot split the line downstream of the needle valve to two separate
>>>>>> reactors, unless each has significant back-pressure (such as a glass
>>>>>> diffusor).  What generally happens is that one of the tanks gets all
>>> the
>>>>>> bubbles, and the second at best gets none, and at worst, acts as a
>>> siphon
>>>>>> from the first tank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I run five tanks off the same CO2 regulator, but I recently purchased a
>>>>>> hexo-manifold (see attached photo) for about the same price as a single
>>>>>> ideal valve.  It does a decent enough job so far and it's stylish
>>> chrome
>>>>>> matches the overkill regulator I bought at the same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In terms of tubing, straight vinyl airline should do the trick just
>>> fine. I
>>>>>> use black vinyl from Home Depot (for drip irrigation lines).  It's the
>>> same
>>>>>> size as airline.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do not use silicone tubing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm one of those folks that don't use solenoids & never have -- I
>>> received
>>>>>> one recently & considered trying it, but am concerned about the effect
>>> of
>>>>>> shutting one off upstream of the needle valves on very long runs to
>>> multiple
>>>>>> tanks.  I may try it on a different regulator that only has a single
>>> output.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really like the aluminum tanks.  They weigh significantly less than
>>> the
>>>>>> steel, and have a nice handle.  Get a 20# if you can afford it --
>>> swap-out
>>>>>> cost is almost the same at Central, but it'll last longer (especially
>>>>>> feeding three aquariums!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  - Erik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, J Clouse wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I've been running three DIY CO2 setups for some time, and now I'm
>>> ready to
>>>>>>> step up to a pressurized system.  My research to date has me leaning
>>>>>>> towards
>>>>>>> the following, but I wanted to check with the group before I make any
>>>>>>> investments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://sumoregulator.com/PremierLine.html>10 lb aluminum tank
>>> (Central
>>>>>>> Welding?)
>>>>>>> Sumo regulator <http://sumoregulator.com/PremierLine.html>
>>>>>>> (2) Ideal 52-1-12 metering valves
>>>>>>> (2) JBJ bubble counter
>>>>>>> (2) Red Sea CO2 500 reactor
>>>>>>> Flexible CO2 tubing (though I'm tempted to use something cheaper...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In looking at the options, it seems like running 24/7 without a
>>> solenoid
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> possibly running an airstone at night seems to be the simplest setup
>>> with
>>>>>>> the least risk to pH (just uses up more CO2).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to use this setup to run *three* tanks.  Two tanks in the
>>>>>>> basement using the Red Sea reactors (running off of a the output of
>>> one of
>>>>>>> the metering valves.  The third tank is on the floor directly above
>>> the
>>>>>>> basement setup.  I would like to run the output of the second metering
>>>>>>> valve
>>>>>>> into a venturi on the intake of a Magnum 350 (currently doing this
>>> with
>>>>>>> (2)
>>>>>>> DIY bottles).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any mistakes you can help avoid?  Any recommendations for a simpler
>>> setup?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Erik Olson                                                        Sent
>>> from
>>>>>> my crusty old Linux box
>>>>>> erik at thekrib dot com
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>>>> --
>>>> Erik Olson                                                        Sent
>>> from my crusty old Linux box
>>>> erik at thekrib dot com
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-- 
Erik Olson                                                        Sent from my 
crusty old Linux box
erik at thekrib dot com
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