"And I think we all agree that the pond/art categories were a bust." In that they didn't attract a lot of entries or that they were inappropriate in an event of this type? I suggested including them in the first place to bring in more people. This hobby attracts all sorts and different people will approach it from a different angle. There is nothing inherent in the word "aquascaping" which requires that it be conducted in a glass box. A garden pond can every bit as "aquascaped" as a 55 gallon aquarium. Its still "aquatic gardening". I'll admit that illustration is a stretch, and we did say at the beginning that this should not be a photo contest. But again, its a way of providing a forum for people who approach this from a different angle to share their work. You'll have to admit "scotch tape" was a bit of a hoot, at least it elicited a chuckle from me. I don't see how either category diluted or took anything away from the planted aquascapes which were the main focus of the event. "As far as the cichlid tank is concerned, I can justify that either way. In a way, it IS an AGA contest, so I wouldn't have a huge problem if there was a caveat that all tanks had to include plants. OTOH, I kind of think that biotope aquariums are an important sub-category that should be supported just because they are a worthy goal, just like paludariums." ... "If you asked me MY opinion, (oh, you didn't... well here it is anyway!<g>) I'd get rid of the "natural" part of the designation, and judge them AS biotope tanks, without apology." I tend to get really tired of this "no plants, no entry" way of thinking. Its an aquascape - whether it has plants or not. Not ALL aquatic environments look like an English perennial border. Allowing for the inclusion of other points of view (non planted tanks) in no way detracts from the beauty of the fully planted aquascapes. The argument that those hobbyists interested in other aspects of the hobby (non planted tanks, ponds, etc.) have other forums to display their work doesn't wash with me. This ought to be more about bringing people together to share common interests, WHATEVER those interests might be. The "blue blood" approach, where planted tank enthusiasts look askance at non planted aquascapes as being somehow "less worthy" is, in my view, a little short sighted and "precious". I don't think that this end of the hobby has matured to the point where it can afford that level of snobbery. I'm pretty sure that the average person constructing a rock-scape for African Cichlids spends a good deal of time and effort selecting the rocks to use and in arranging them in the most effective and visually pleasing manner. That's "aquascaping". If Robert H. wants to limit HIS event to planted tanks, that is his right. But I don't see why THIS event ought to be so narrow minded. The inclusion or separation of "Natural" and "Biotope" aquascapes is (I believe) purely one of convenience based upon the number of entries received in those categories. A beautifully aquascaped tank can still make quite an impression if it isn't 100% accurate to a specific biotope. Lumping them together runs the risk of failing to do justice to either. As well, I wonder how many hobbyists REALLY know what a lot of "natural biotopes" actually look like? How many have actually been there to see for themselves, first-hand? Is it not more a case of people attempting to create their own personal "impression" of an aquascape or a particular biotope? "I think the AGA should take a lesson learned that you have tried to broaden the scope of the event too far off base. The new categories added this year by James is proof of that." So shoot me for trying something new. If the general consensus is that the new categories didn't work, for whatever reason, they can be easily dropped. See my comments above. "I also believe a statement saying this event was never about being a contest is naive. While true the motives behind it may be pure, there is competition involved in something like this." Where is the nearest wall, so that I may bang my head for a few minutes? Call me naive. I totally understand the "greed factor" and realize how much anticipation a rich prize pool can elicit. I also understand the enormous amount of effort that is required to solicit, store, divvy up and trans-ship such a cache of goodies. And, to my shagrin, I know only too well how mistakes can happen when prizes get mixed up or go astray in the mails. If Robert H. (or anyone else) wishes to step up to the box and offer to coordinate and undertake this colossal task, fine, but it ain't no piece of cake. During Year #1, I spent many, many hours, over many, many months putting the prizes together. Unfortunately, this past summer saw me spending more time flat on my back, ill in bed. Its a colossal job that takes a healthy person to carry out properly. "Only when you are confident that this has been done can you simply dismiss people's comments as being sour grapes." I don't think that anyone is viewing Robert's input as "sour grapes". Indeed, it is valuable to read and consider alternative points of view. It can cause you to look at the real reasons why things have been done a particular way in the past and hopefully can make the event better and stronger in the future. But I still maintain that strength is more likely to be found in inclusion than in exclusivity. Well, anyway, that's my $9.95 on the matter...... James Purchase Toronto ------------------ To unsubscribe from this list, e-mail majordomo@thekrib.com with "unsubscribe aga-contest" in the body of the message. To subscribe to the digest version, add "subscribe aga-contest-digest" in the same message. 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