Re: MCM - Digest V1 #246

[Karen Randall <krandall@world.std.com>]

At 12:39 PM 3/2/2000 -0500, Mary wrote:

>This sounds fine to me, but I do have a couple of concerns:
>
>(1)  Possibly some people might object to not being given a choice as to
>whether or not they want to be listed even in the minimal way you have
>suggested.  Would it be better to put an insert in TAG with a form stating
>that if you do NOT want to be listed to let us know?  We could put an insert
>in V13n2 which I plan to have out by the middle of  May.  The roster could
>then be published in n3 which will be coming out in August.  In any event, I
>think it would be better to publish the roster in August if we decide to go
>ahead and do this to give our membership list a chance to build up again.

I don't have strong feelings on this issue one way or the other.  We've
published membership lists (at least one) in the past, so it's not without
precedent.  But I think if people are concerned about this issue, we should
add a check box to our membership forms and ask people to check it if they
do NOT want their address made available to other AGA members via TAG.  Tha
way we don't have to worry about this in the future.  I have misgivings
about the web site, since it is available to anyone who chooses to drop by.

>(2) After a recent incident, I am even more concerned about Dave Gomberg and
>the extent to which he is willing to go to make his magazine a success.  You
>may recall that John Glaeser has started the Madison Aquatic Gardeners Club,
>and he gave me a press release which will appear in the next TAG along with
>information on the Toronto group.  I asked John to write a story for TAG a
>couple of weeks ago.  He told me he had had a parallel request from Gomberg
>and was writing an article for him entitled "How to Start Your Own Local
>Club."  He wanted to write an article for TAG, too, so he and I are going to
>do a story for TAG in a question and answer interview format with me posing
>various questions which will be published in n2.  So the immediate problem
>is solved.

Mary, I think you are reading too much into this.  Dave may be difficult to
get along with, and he may be abrupt, even rude.  But his goals are the
same as those of AGA... to promote this hobby.  If his magazine publishes
an article on how to start your own local club, and even ONE group gets
started by a person who's not an AGA member, I think that's a good thing.  

John was in touch with Dave before he was in touch with you, NOT because
Dave was trying to scoop a story, but because _I_ suggested that John talk
to Dave (and Olga) for ideas on how an independent group could get
organized.  Dave spent a lot of time talking to John, and giving him ideas
to get his group going.

>My concern is this:  whereas the other commercial magazines see their role
>as supporting hobbyist groups and stay out of that area, it seems to me that
>David has put himself in the position of competing with us.  He knows that
>we have been trying to address starting more regional and local groups.  

How is he competing with us?  For contributors?  We knew that was going to
happen when we turned down his proposal.  It already happens.  ANYONE who
is writing clear, good quality, useful articles for TAG can sell those same
articles to any one of the "big 3" with ease.  They are _all_ looking for
good writers on planted tanks.

Dave is certainly not competing with us for members, as he does not have an
organization.  He "only" has a magazine to which he can sell subscriptions.
 I don't see it as a big problem if every one of our AGA members decided to
subscribe to PAM also.  I would only see it as a problem if we started to
lose members because we could not position our _organization_ as being more
than "just" a magazine.  But I still think that would be our fault, not
Dave's.  We _cannot_ compete head to head with the two magazines. They are
not comparable. (nor should we)

>As I understand it, he doesn't see his group in San Francisco as having any
>relation to the AGA.  

It doesn't have any relation to AGA.  Neither does any other regional
group.  Members of the SF group actually approached me about the
possibilty, as a number of the SF members ARE also members of AGA.  I gave
them the same answer I have given every other group that has contacted me.
I told them that the AGA is not currently in a position to "sanction" local
groups or chapters.  We do, however support the formation of these groups
in any way possible.  We are willing to publish news from such groups and
announcements of any aquatic plant related activities organized by any
group both in TAG and on the web site.  I have cc'd at least the SC, and I
_think_ the MC with every communication of this sort that I have written.  

If AGA decides to pursue a more "official" standing for these local groups,
that's fine.  BUT it will be a _lot_ more work for a lot more people.  It
seems to me we are having a hard enough time handling the work that is
already on our plates.  My personal opinion is that AGA can best serve its
established goals by doing exactly what we have been doing... encouraging
interest in planted aquariums and aquatic plants in any way we can.  

>David seems intent on doing his own thing apart from the goals of the AGA.  

Dave is involved in a commercial venture.  He will do what he needs to do
to protect his investment and that of his other investors. (as he should)
Certainly in his communications with me, he has said nothing to me that
makes me think that he bears any ill-will toward AGA or the management
team, nor that he has any interest in or intent to cause the organization harm.

>Even with only names and cities, I wouldn't put it past him to track down
these people using "people search" or by some other
>means.

I'm not even going to get into whether he would or not. What is the worst
case scenario if he did?  We are already exchanging ads with him.  I am a
long term, loyal AGA member.  I certainly have no qualms about telling
people what I know about PAM.  I intend to subscribe, and I suspect many
AGA members will.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  It won't in any
way effect my loyalty or committment to AGA.

Karen 
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