I don't think out-of-auction selling has been a big issue for AGA. I don't think there are many folks selling stuff out of their rooms or in the hallways, etc. I think what is more likely is swapping/giving plants throughout the year has a bigger impact on how much people want to buy at the convention. And I wouldn't want to change that for leaf nor money. RE convention purposes -- I'll toss out a couple of points. We went into AGA2K4 knowing that we might do no better than break even and I think we are all willing to do conventions that way. Whether it's the preferred thing right now is something I'll say a bit more about in a second -- but we're willing to do conventions as no-significant-loss undertaings. The bones I've been picking are the ones that point to revenue we didn't get, not because the convention wasn't *supposed* to make money but merely because of avoidable poor (no pun intended) practices -- weak accounting, sloppy cash management, uninspired marketing, inattention to detail, we all know the list. Why I'm still whipping this poor dead, don't know -- there's a diff between lessons learned and just not getting over it and I probably am still lost between the two :-\ RE convention revs -- and I don't know if this is relevant to anything but when did irrelevance ever stop me: That the ACA gives (or at least administers) grants, undoubtedly greatly improves their appearance to the IRS as a (c)3 organization. So in some sense they must be much better off financially, even if it doesn't show in a cash account or convention net revenues. Anyway, I hope someday we can give grants. Back closer to point, a well run non-prof, imo, out to run with just enough capital to ensure the desired operations. If we only want to do what we are doing, then we are probably close to achieving that. However, if we want to increase the size of TAG, I think we need higher average annual membership, which is difficult to achieve, or more convention revs, which is also difficult to achieve, or given that those are difficult, a combination of both. The need is yet greater if also we entertain notions to expand operations beyond those two. (I'm not forgetting that AGA has other operations, Bookstore, list, website contest. But those are much smaller in term of financial impact than the other two.) sh _______________________________________________ AGA-mcm mailing list AGA-mcm@thekrib.com http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/aga-mcm