Re: [AGA-mcm] AGA and internet forums

["S. Hieber" <shieber@yahoo.com>]

What you are asking for takes more than the number of folks
on MCM, and that's the real problem. When AGA "reaches out"
for help, we get lots of ideas -- infact, usually mostly
the same ones -- but not real offers to help.

I believe we would have had forums two years ago if the
resources were available.

sh

--- Phil Edwards <biotypical@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Before I go any further I want to say that I love TAG and
> am 100% Pro-AGA.  
> I would pay for a membership regardless of what I got out
> of anything the 
> AGA does because it is the one organization dedicated to
> furthering the 
> hobby I love so much.  I know many people who also like
> TAG for all the 
> reasons they like aquarium books.  It's a constantly
> updating book; and that 
> has some appeal to me.
> 
> >Most folks I've talked to think TAG is just a couple of
> articles 
> >surrounding an Amano article and is basically usless.
> That's a pretty 
> >strong statement there, and I agree with Karen, if the
> majority of our 
> >membership is really of this opinion, we might as well
> quit right now.
> 
> You're both right.  It is a very strong statement but is
> what I have found 
> to be the prevalent opinion of the people I've spoken
> with regarding TAG.  
> This has come from folks active on internet forums both,
> plant related and 
> not plant related, as well as people I've met face to
> face.  I've received a 
> lot of "That's nice, but....[it's not enough]" when I
> show them what they 
> get for their membership fees.  When asked why they had
> that reaction 99% 
> said that they could get more for free over the internet.
>  Ever since Cheryl 
> began giving me back issues of TAG to hand out at
> meetings/conferences/local 
> shops I've been getting that reaction from the vast
> majority of people.  
> Occassionally I'll get a bite, but it's rare.
> 
> Should we quit now?  No!  We should make an concerted
> group effort to get 
> people contributing.  I know this has been an ongoing
> dilemma for us but 
> it's not going to get any better.  The biggest problem we
> face with this is 
> people can and do write TAG quality articles for internet
> forums instead of 
> TAG.  Why?  They get instant gratification and feedback
> on their work.
> 
> TAG has a place in the world and it will always have a
> place.  We will 
> always have members who prefer to hold something of
> substance in their hands 
> rather than look at a computer screen.  I can't take my
> computer on long car 
> trips, but I can take my issues of TAG.  Right now TAG is
> the best place to 
> get up to date information regarding the state of the
> organization, I can't 
> get that on a discussion forum.
> 
> >I guess I would ask, WHAT do you think these particular
> people would want 
> >from the AGA as an organization?
> 
> I've asked this question on every forum I've been to and
> of most folks I 
> talk with/meet in person.  Overwhelmingly they say that
> they want the AGA to 
> have an internet forum.  Quarterly journals, regardless
> of the quality, 
> can't provide the feedback and learning environment that
> forums provide.  
> The internet provides options and opportunities that a
> print media journal 
> can't begin to offer.  People want a place where they can
> ask questions and 
> get answers/help to their immediate problems without
> having to wait three 
> months for the next issue to come out while hoping that
> it might have 
> something related to their needs in it.
> 
> To paraphrase multiple answers I've received from others:
> They want a 
> publication that is more than a reprint of Amano's work
> and a compliation of 
> email list discussions with a couple other articles added
> in.  They want a 
> journal where they can learn things about keeping planted
> tanks.  When I 
> think of this, I think of Neil's articles.
> 
> The solution? Get people to submit articles.  For my
> part, I'm working on a 
> multi-issue article that will follow the life of my 20g
> tank from the 
> beginning to its first birthday.
> 
> >And how will this change that perception?
> 
> Increased and noticable activity on internet forums that
> the AGA is 
> advertising on/sponsoring from -all- AGA members, but
> specifically those 
> members who folks recognize [that aren't already active
> on forums], will 
> show the nay-sayers that the AGA as an organization
> recognizes the current 
> state of the hobby.  Participation on the internet forums
> is the next best 
> thing to having one ourselves.  By doing so as AGA
> members we are showing 
> that the AGA really is an organization that is able to
> help people learn 
> about aquatic gardening at an every day level.
> 
> Starting up our own forum would prove to people that we
> are serious about 
> upholding our mission statement(s).
> 
> * To disseminate information about aquatic plants
> * To study and improve upon techniques for culturing
> aquatic and bog plants 
> in aquariums and ponds
> * To increase interest in aquatic gardening
> * To promote fellowship among its members
> 
> Two serious, no sarcasm questions:
> 
> 1. How can the AGA, through TAG, accomplish these
> purposes better than an 
> active discussion forum is able to?
> 
> 2. If you had to choose between getting answers to all of
> your planted 
> aquarium questions and problems from a book or from a
> community of hobbyists 
> that will give you timely help specific to your needs,
> which would you 
> choose?
> 
> 
> I was just talking with Sharon and she brought up a very
> good point.  As an 
> active marketing executive/ad designer for a well known
> NASCAR based 
> business she gets a lot of professional publications. 
> She said that to a 
> one they all have a website and many have discussion
> forums that compliment 
> the publication.  What they do is print little bits of
> their articles online 
> and then say "if you want the rest, get a subscription". 
> I see the AGA as 
> being at a place where that is probably our best choice
> for the future.  
> People have expressed a desire for an AGA run discussion
> forum and people 
> still do like TAG.  If they got both they would get the
> best of both 
> options.  They would get the daily help/advice that they
> desire from the 
> forum, and then TAG would be there to provide services
> best suited for a 
> print journal.  Regular quarterly columns that aren't
> made available online, 
> except in teaser form, are what TAG can excel at.
> 
> 
> I know I'm saying a lot of things that push people's
> buttons and that may 
> not be the most popular things to say.  That doesn't mean
> that they 
> shouldn't be said.  It's because I love the AGA so much
> that I'm pushing so 
> hard.  We have been trying to figure out how to break the
> membership hump 
> we've hit for as long as I've been around, and longer. 
> I've put a lot of 
> effort into finding out how we can do this and I really
> believe that the 
> internet is the only way to go.
> 
> I want y'all to know that I look up to every single one
> of you.  Please 
> understand that I'm not attacking any one of you for any
> reason.  I know how 
> hard y'all work at keeping this organization
> Photosynthesizing and that you 
> are all very strapped for time.  I also know that if you
> could, you would 
> participate in every available venue, but that it's just
> not possible 
> sometimes.  Life is more important.
> 
> Regards,
> Phil
> 
> 
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