Re: [AGA-mcm] RE: [Aca-cadre] convention dvd bit the dust (fwd)

[Larry Lampert <l_lampert@yahoo.com>]

I agree with you completely. This needs to be
addressed prior to booking the speaker. If the speaker
says no then we just find a different speaker. 


--- "S. Hieber" <shieber@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I think archival copies for club members use only
> could be
> something stated up front as part of the deal when
> getting
> a speaker. Certainly that is only time when the club
> will
> have any bargaining leverage -- You want to come
> talk, you
> have to let us keep an archival copy for our
> members. They
> can then dicker about the speaking price but let's
> face it,
> Hollywood agents are going to be knocking down doors
> to get
> this stuff on a top 40 list. I don't mean to say
> that the
> talks (or most of them) are great things, jsut that
> the
> market value, in real dollars is very small.
> 
> sh
> 
> --- Larry Lampert <l_lampert@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > I really don't know what to say about this. I see
> > Fred's point's though. Many of our speakers were
> using
> > maps and music without permission. 
> > 
> > However, any way you slice it it is just to much
> work.
> > I don't like having speakers look at us like we
> are
> > trying to steal their talk.
> > 
> > I don't see the purpose in having anyone sign
> anything
> > if we are just using it for archival purposes,
> > regardless of how friendly/nice it seems. If there
> is
> > no financial gain anyone bringing suit will have
> > diffciulty claiming a grievance against an
> > educational/hobby organization merely trying to
> record
> > its own history.
> > 
> > I think we need to look outside the hobby to see
> how
> > other large hobby organizations handle this issue.
> Why
> > reinvent the wheel. Certainly we are not the first
> > zebra to cross this crocodile infested river......
> > 
> > Larry
> > --- Erik Olson <erik@thekrib.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Just to reinforce my earlier e-mail about being
> able
> > > to do NOTHING legally 
> > > in a small club, I'm breaking the law just by
> > > forwarding this message.
> > > 
> > > Frederick misses my point (being that speakers
> freak
> > > out when having to 
> > > sign things, and also that they're very
> protective
> > > of what they see as 
> > > their own work).
> > > 
> > > But his little tangent on copyright of images is
> > > something any speaker 
> > > should always look at carefully.  Pretty sure
> nearly
> > > everything on our AGA 
> > > disks are original or with permission (except
> for
> > > Shaun Winterton's talk 
> > > which stole a lot of pictures off other
> people... I
> > > know because many are 
> > > from the aquascaping contest site!  also my talk
> on
> > > the state of the AGA 
> > > in 2003 appropriated some low-res celebrity
> photos
> > > off Google).
> > > 
> > >    - Erik
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Erik Olson
> > > erik at thekrib dot com
> > > 
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:52:44 -0400
> > > From: "Hamilton, Frederick (hamiltfn)"
> > > <HAMILTFN@ucmail.uc.edu>
> > > Reply-To: ACA Board and Cadre
> > > <aca-cadre@thekrib.com>
> > > To: ACA Board and Cadre <aca-cadre@thekrib.com>
> > > Subject: RE: [Aca-cadre] convention dvd bit the
> dust
> > > 
> > > Hi, All:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The proposed form gave us permission to use the
> > > talk, and contained
> > > assurances that the material was not infringing
> > > anyone else's rights. These
> > > are pretty basic and bare-bones types of items.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > As I watched the presentations, it was apparent
> to
> > > me that many of the talks
> > > used "borrowed" material (maps, fish images, and
> > > even popular music), so I
> > > am not surprised that the authors grew concerned
> > > about the form.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Under the "fair use" doctrine in copyright,
> limited
> > > educational uses of
> > > material are generally permitted (when the
> quantity
> > > of the material used is
> > > small, the purpose of the use is for bona fide
> > > educational purposes, etc.)
> > > When admission is charged to view the material,
> the
> > > waters become a little
> > > more murky.  When this material is repackaged
> and
> > > resold, the waters become
> > > murkier still; I am not at all sure that we
> would
> > > have a sufficient defense
> > > to a lawsuit if, for example, an ACA-produced
> > > convention DVD containing
> > > "misappropriated" third-party images or text
> turned
> > > fell into the hands of
> > > the owner of the material.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Certainly, I would be hard pressed to defend our
> > > unlicensed use of Pink
> > > Floyd's "Money" on a "fair use" rationale.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Ultimately, it's a risk-benefit analysis.  The
> risk
> > > that National
> > > Geographic, for example, would sue the ACA (or a
> > > speaker) for unauthorized
> > > use of digitized maps of Africa during a talk at
> an
> > > ACA convention is
> > > probably fairly remote. As a technical matter,
> > > though, both the speaker and
> > > the ACA and TCA could have been sued by National
> > > Geographic following that
> > > talk.  When a talk which uses someone else's
> work
> > > without their permission
> > > is repackaged for sale, the risk increases
> > > significantly.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > In my opinion, we have the right to expect that
> our
> > > speakers will only use
> > > materials which they have created, or for which
> they
> > > have gotten appropriate
> > > permission. However, in fairness to them, I
> agree
> > > that we should raise this
> > > issue early in the process, and not at the
> eleventh
> > > hour.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I'm certainly available to work on a "nicer"
> form.  
> > > Perhaps the most
> > > non-threatening form would seek permission to
> retain
> > > a copy of the talk(s)
> > > for archival or "internal" purposes, and leave
> it at
> 
=== message truncated ===

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