Re: [AGA-mcm] Super long feedback on the AGA from three forums

["S. Hieber" <shieber@yahoo.com>]

Good collection. I don't see much new but I've only gone
over it quickly so far.

One thing many folks seem persistently to miss 1) A copy of
TAG, by membership, costs less than a Big Mac, lasts a darn
sight longer and is much better for you and 2) AGA is doing
as much as it can with the money and labor available.

Well, we *can* do a bit more with the money and we are in
the early stages of a process of deciding how.

The umbrella thing, I just don't get. I don't think the
folks that say this have a clear concept of what they are
saying. Can anyone tell me what an umbrella is actually
supposed to do? Not in general abstract terms but some
actual concrete examples? Because it sure as heck isn't
guidance, rare is the org that wants direction from another
org -- maybe in principle but not in deed.

sh

--- Phil Edwards <biotypical@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hey folks, before getting into this I recommend locking
> yourself away with a 
> nice glass of your preferred beverage and a nice cozy
> chair.  This one's 
> long.  I've also included the file as an attachment for
> your later perusal.  
> I apologize for the mushed together-ness of the message. 
> Everything was cut 
> and pasted directly from the people's input.  Only names
> were removed except 
> in some cases where it wouldn't really cause a problem,
> such as comments by 
> cheryl and RPH at the end.  Asterisks denote different
> groups of comments.  
> Most of the time it's different people, other times it's
> further commentary 
> by previous contributors.
> 
> * I joined for a few reasons. I really wanted to get TAG,
> I wanted to 
> support a great organization, and, hopefully one day,
> attend the AGA show.
> One thing I would like to see happen is for TAG to come
> out more than it 
> does. How about every other month instead of every three?
> 
> * I joined to meet the people I had read so much from for
> so long. So I 
> joined when I signed up for the convention.
> I keep the membership because I want to support the
> group. I volunteer 
> (T-shirt mailer) because I want to support the group.
> My money is just money but my time is priceless -- so I
> give money AND time! 
> -Ann Viverette
> 
> *I also joined to get the Tag, but I failed to renew my
> membership this 
> year. Besides the Takashi Amano 
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>
> 
> authored articles, 90% of the content could be found here
> and other online 
> places. I also get a sense of comraderie (sp?) here that
> is lacking from the 
> AGA, at least at my participation level. I keep kicking
> around the idea of 
> joining again for 2 main reasons:
> 1) Miss TAG. Unless I go and print out all the articles I
> want to read, 
> viewing online requires my butt to be stuck in my chair
> in front of the cold 
> glow of my CRT, not lounging in on a couch, or being
> outside, or laying on 
> the floor in front of my fish tanks.
> 2) Want to purchase all the convention DVD's. I missed
> Amano 
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>
> at DC 
> this past november, dispite living not 2 hours from DC. I
> would also love to 
> be able to watch all the speakers from 04 and previous
> years.
> 
> *The major reason I didn't renew this year is I don't see
> a benefit, besides 
> TAG, to join AGA. Example, when I joined AAA, I get all
> kinds of benefits. I 
> know the AGA and AAA are completely different, but AAA
> makes a great example 
> of member benefits. I also don't see a 'mission' of the
> AGA. There doesn't 
> seem to be a goal, focus or push for the AGA, besides TAG
> (beating that one 
> to death) and having conventions (which I have heard isnt
> happening in 05).
> Maybe the AGA should form a stronger connection to places
> such as here and 
> regional clubs like GWAPA, the Dallas-Fort Worth club,
> and the San Fran 
> club. Plus, where is the annual TFH Plant issue featuring
> lots of AGA 
> members authoring articles as happens with cichlids and
> the ACA each year! 
> You want to promote the hobby, there is one way to do it!
> Guess simply, I just don't see a reason to join.
> Disclaimer:
> I am probably unaware of many services and benefits of
> joining and it is my 
> own ignorance that shapes my viewpoints.
> 
> * As a member (need to renew...), I like the TAG, most of
> it anyway, but I 
> really don't get much more out of it. The conventions are
> usually too far 
> away, and there's not one this year. I see this as a
> problem, and brings me 
> to think where the AGA stands in the "big picture." Many
> larger cities have 
> well established clubs/societies, and one might tend to
> percieve the AGA as 
> the top of the aquatic plant club food chain, partially
> due to the major 
> conventions held each year. However, with local clubs,
> the internet, and 
> sites such as this one, the AGA is on the verge of
> extinction IMHO.
> 
> I think the AGA needs to have more of a worldwide
> presence, and I don't 
> think Amano 
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>
> can do 
> it all. What about the other countries and their talents?
> 
> There's so much information still left to discover. The
> TAG needs to be more 
> in-depth and thorough, with relative articles. Very
> detailed and scientific 
> articles of plant species (that are actually used in
> aquatic gardening), 
> nutrient info (similar to what Tom B is doing), detailed
> info about algae, 
> aquascaping, contest winner's aquarium info (interviews),
> and similar stuff 
> should be the focus of TAG. I would say either increase
> the frequency of the 
> journal, or send a "book" every 3 months (I think
> increased frequency would 
> be better). Out of all the talented people on this
> planet, I'm sure articles 
> shouldn't be a problem. Who won 1st place at ADA this
> year? I want to every 
> last detail about that tank from the owner, not "here's
> the tank pic, cool 
> ain't it?" Get him/her on the phone, email, in person,
> whatever, and pick 
> their brain. Then write an article that doesn't skip
> every other detail.
> 
> Of course, it all comes down to money. The glossy-paged
> TAG isn't cheap to 
> produce I'm sure. Conventions aren't cheap. You could
> increase membership 
> fees, but I don't think that would be a good idea at this
> point in time. 
> T-shirts don't make money. So what do you do? Booths at
> major conventions, 
> like the one at ACA is a good idea, but AGA can't be
> everywhere--or can 
> they? The AGA needs to develop regionally, possibly with
> representatives at 
> the major clubs locales. If you look at the AGA as a
> corporation, 
> corporations have regional and division offices. That's
> something to think 
> about, or at least a direction to explore.
> 
> Back to the money, you either need more of it, or more
> cost effective ways 
> of doing things. I think technology is the way to go, as
> in a web-site that 
> does it all. It could host the electronic version of TAG
> (no need to print 
> as many copies), video interviews, and real-time
> streaming media--such as an 
> AGA convention--at a price of course. Can't make the
> show? Then simply have 
> a seat in your easy chair, pop a cold one, and indulge
> yourself. Beats gas 
> prices. This is my answer, as these are the questions we
> deal with in my 
> graduate program, and techology is driving it as well.
> 
> With any relatively new society, there are many issues
> like lack of money, 
> lack of time, lack of technology, etc., but we can't sit
> around waiting for 
> the answer to come to us. We, as a group, must come
> together to get it off 
> the ground. The answers are out there. I am willing do
> what I can with the 
> time I have, and I'm sure there's others that feel that
> way as well, but a 
> handfull can't do it all.
> 
> * Phil, you know I'm not much for "me too" posts so I was
> reluctant to speak 
> my mind since others have said much about what I think
> already.
> I am an ex-member and I can't find a good reason to
> renew. Basically I found 
> I was paying $20 for 4 issues of TAG and most of that was
> rehashed info 
> except for the Amamo articles. So in essence it was $5 an
> issue for an Amamo 
> article.
> I'd like to see the AGA be an umbrella group for the
> myriad local clubs 
> where your membership in the local group extends to
> covering the overall AGA 
> membership. Much as MASNA is in on the marine side, or
> the SCCA is in the 
> sports car realm.
> How to accomplish these things? Frankly I have no idea. I
> do wish you the 
> best of luck in attracting me and other people that think
> the AGA is 
> superfluous, back.
> 
> *as a member from abroad, this organisation does not give
> much other then 
> the xelent TAG magazine. joined once and will not renew
> 
> *I have thought of joining to support what it could
> (does) stand for, but 
> never have. Frankly, I can't see the value for my money
> other than TAG. But 
> I feel that with so much information out here on the web,
> it's almost 
> redundant. Nevertheless, I think it is a good
> organization, which could have 
> a major impact on the hobby. Perhaps it could take a role
> in promoting 
> aquatic gardening through lfs's, or maybe get a major
> chain for sponsorship. 
> For example, let's say a chain, Pet Smart, could be
> talked into being a 
> major sponsor. AGA could provide information and
> education on how to set up 
> a planted tank and each Pet Smart could have a planted
> display tank with the 
> works - CO2, good lighting, etc. The chain could sell all
> the equipment 
> needed, from regulators to ferts, and provide some real
> knowledge to folks 
> who might be interested in setting up a planted tank.
> Just ramblings, but 
> perhaps...
> 
> * I also agree with [previous person's] input.
> 
> *New members: have them spot lighted and regonized when
> they do enter the 
> club. Have the speaker/welcomer spot light them at the
> meeting, or in TAG. 
> Ask, "what do you keep?" How many tanks? How long in the
> hobby?" etc....
> Local clubs that do this seem to retain good membership.
> This makes the new folks much more welcomed.
> They wander off otherwise.
> This might help retain folks once they join and stick
> with it, rather than 
> phase in/out or only do it one time etc.
> Little welcome baggies of plant stuff is a nice way of
> saying "Hi" also for 
> new members.
> It's not like we do not have enough stuff we can give
> away for peanuts that 
> will make them much more likely to get involved......
> TAG: best tank O month, or new member tanks........
> Happy thought fer the day.....
> 
> *I joined but let it lapse. TAG offered little for me, I
> don't follow Amano 
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>
> or 
> subscribe to his design focus so as far as I'm concerned,
> I was paying my 
> hard earned money supporting something that doesn't
> coincide with where I 
> want my hobby to go. I've found articles in other aquaria
> related magazines 
> to be of much more practical value in helping me achieve
> my own vision so I 
> moved on.
> 
> *  I joined the AGA last year since it was a requirement
> for attending the 
> AGA Conference. If it hadn't been for that I probably
> wouldn't have joined!
> That being said, I did renew my membership to try and
> help support the 
> hobby. Unlike some others, TAG hasn't been much of a
> factor in my membership 
> status.
> As has been stated before, most of the articles have
> already appeared on 
> various sites, with the exception of Amano 
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>'s
> 
> articles, which I usually skip over. I like some of Amano
> 
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>'s
> work, 
> but it is not something I want to read about or try to
> duplicate.
> I do have to applaud TAG for finally getting some other
> Aquascapers out in 
> the open. I liked Luis Navarro's article on setting up
> his tank. I would 
> like to see more of these types of articles (maybe the
> Senske's setting up a 
> tank). I realize TAG relies on it's readers to submit
> articles so we are 
> only going to get out of it what we put into it. As for
> me, I renewed my 
> membership which is about all I can give to AGA for the
> time being.
> 
> * Why not make this forum the official forum of the AGA:
> "AGA Plant 
> Central"? Supporting members who donate over a certain
> minimum amount could 
> then gain access to a .pdf version of TAG.
> 
> *I joined last year and when my membership expired I
> renewed it through a 
> club sponsored (SFBAAPS) membership drive...more out of a
> sense of duty to 
> the hobby in general rather than support for the AGA
> specifically.
> Like most others have already stated, it seems the only
> benefit to joining 
> is the TAG subscription. Having produced corporate
> publications in the past 
> I know how hard it can be just getting
> content/advertising for a quarterly 
> pub. Doing it monthly is a full-time job.
> Organizations like AAA and SCAA have been mentioned, but
> you need to 
> consider that these are fully staffed corporations. Since
> the AGA is staffed 
> with people who have real day jobs I don't think we can
> ever expect that 
> level of member services.
> Even the convention is solely dependent on a local club
> to get the event 
> coordinated. The reason why there isn't one this year is
> because no local 
> club was able to submit a bid to host the event. For me
> to consider the AGA 
> to be 'real' national organization it needs to be able to
> run these types of 
> event from the top down. In the corporate world you don't
> rely on a local 
> user group to coordinate and host your world wide user
> conference.
> I guess my point is that until the AGA becomes a fully
> funded business, with 
> a full-time staff dedicated to the ADA's events and
> promotions it'll never 
> be more than a glorified 'club'.
> 
> *I have never joined AGA, I have toyed with the idea but
> I can readily find 
> everything I want to know online. If I wasn't a poor
> student I would 
> probably join APC and then maybe AGA. I do really like
> how AGA puts on 
> conventions yearly (or almost yearly) and hopefully I can
> go to one someday. 
> I also really like the online bookshop from AGA. I think
> the best thing for 
> AGA is to support local clubs and help recruit new folks
> to the planted tank 
> ranks.
> 
> *So far I joined for TAG and just to support the planted
> hobby. I'm really 
> not quite sure what I'm 'expecting' for my money, as the
> education, etc. I 
> get from the internet and the socializing from my plant
> club, etc. Sorry I 
> can't be more helpful
> 
> * Phil, we discussed the merits as a club within SFBAAPS.
> I use to put "[name here] -- AGA" under my sig some years
> ago, many folks 
> did. It showed you were serious about aquatic weeds. ADA
> was not around, 
> folks had much more growing problems, many folks did not
> have access to 
> certain species they now do nor products.
> Folks have come very large way in a relatively short time
> and the art aspect 
> is catching up to that rapidly these days.
> I predicted that a long time ago, but as that change has
> evolved, so has the 
> AGA.
> I think any(local as well) club needs to really focus on
> the comoradery with 
> new folks. We have many repeat folks that join the AGA
> and most clubs while 
> new membership wanders in/out.
> Like plants, you must give them what they need to grow.
> If you have things you want to change, by all means hop
> on board the AGA and 
> become that change.
> 
> *I've been a subscriber for a variety of reasons and
> certainly, at least 
> initially, TAG was a big part. So were the videos of
> previous Conventions. 
> But frankly the size of the AGA is very much a problem.
> Until the membership 
> size increases we will be stuck with limited funds and
> limited 
> opportunities. I would think that trying to align
> ourselves with other 
> smaller groups such as NANFA might open additional
> opportunities and help 
> defray the cost of running a convention if they could be
> timed and 
> coordinated together. And being frank...I'm a bit
> disappointed that the sole 
> focus seems to be on the aquascaping part of planted
> tanks and we never see 
> much about teaming our gardening skills with fish
> selection and care. While 
> there are other Associations that focus on fish they
> still discuss and 
> educate membership about plants. We seem to leave that
> part of the equation 
> out of the mix. Most of the folks I encounter that are
> turned off by the AGA 
> give reasons such as too much emphasis on plants with
> little regard to 
> fishkeeping. Somewhere it seems to me as though we lost
> the fact that as 
> much as we love our plants it is still the fish that are
> the stars. Growing 
> healthy plants in a pleasing aquascape is great...having
> the same with 
> beautiful healthy fish is spectacular. To me it seems
> that while the focus 
> should always remain about plants, it should not be so
> exclusive of 
> fish...especially if we want a larger base of appeal.
> 
> *Good point, [above member]!
> I discussed the same train of thought at length:
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...9185#post169185 
>
<http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=169185>
> 
> *I joined for the combined benefits of the discount on
> your materials that 
> you sell on the web, along with your magazine.
> But I think it is important to note, you're asking two
> questions:
> 1) What do you want AGA to be?
> 2) Why did you join?
> I just answered the second question. If you are asking
> the first question, I 
> believe the AGA can best serve the community by
> establishing and publishing 
> standards and best practices in the aquatic gardening
> community. Also to 
> serve as a focal point for representing to vendors those
> changes the 
> community needs them to make in their product lines to
> best serve this 
> community.
> 
> *I joined the AGA for a couple of reasons.
> I joined the AGA to help support the hobby in general, to
> receive TAG and to 
> purchase some of the books available through the AGA.
> I will renew my membership.
> What do I want the AGA to be? That is a tough one.
> I believe the AGA could be more of a "clearing house" of
> information.
> Take a look at the website. Under the "Featured Articles"
> section there are 
> only eight articles. One of them is an obituary of sorts,
> one is a book 
> review, there are contest results from 1997 and a list.
> Each one well 
> written, no doubt, but lacking. The rest of the website
> is book/DVD/T-shirt 
> sales, photos of people who attended the conventions and
> some links. The 
> website doesn't offer very much. Far to little for the
> prestigious position 
> the AGA holds. TAG is a nice little publication, but AGA
> needs to offer more 
> to hobbyists.
> I'd like to see more information on the website. A lot of
> the info you might 
> find in the FAQs section of this and a lot of other
> planted aquarium forums 
> should be articles available from the AGA. DIY CO2
> reactor plans, how to set 
> up a pressurized CO2 system, things like that. They need
> to be on the AGA 
> website. The AGA needs to be the place to turn to for
> basic information.
> TAG is a nice little publication. Great photos and nice
> articles. 
> Understanding production costs, it would be nice to see
> the magazine 
> expanded even further. I'd gladly pay a higher membership
> fee to receive a 
> bigger issue of TAG, or receive it more frequently.
> 
> *I checked into sponsoring the AGA a couple of years ago
> but your 
> sponsorship rates were so high that I just couldn't
> justify expending that 
> kind of operating capital on just one sponsorship. I'd
> love to help you guys 
> out but it's just too costly.
> 
> *What's the AGA?
> What's TAG?
> 
> *Del must be talking about advertising in TAG, and I
> agree, the rate is much 
> to high for the number of people it reaches. Big
> companies like Seachem can 
> afford to drop a few hundred bucks just to make them look
> supportive, but 
> little guys have to spend money for advertising that will
> earn a return. The 
> big magazines reach thousands of people.
> I would like to see the AGA, (Aquatic Gardeners
> Association) reach out more 
> to the general public and take a more active role in
> promoting the hobby and 
> educating the public. Open the convention to non members
> or hold public 
> seminars. Be more of a trade organization, (no I do not
> mean trade as in 
> trading plants) than a buddy club.
> TAG is The Aquatic Gardener, the magazine put out by the
> group which is the 
> primary thing you get by becoming a member of the AGA.
> 
> *Sorry for the second post, but I forgot to mention
> something important 
> IMO...
> The annual Aquascaping Contest does a great deal to
> promote the hobby, and 
> is a great service and tradition that AGA should really
> continue.
> 
> *I enjoy and use the AGA website, but never had the urge
> to join because I'm 
> not much of an aquascaper. I just like to grow weeds and
> keep fish. Most of 
> my planted tanks are "severely" overgrown. AGA seems to
> be angled more 
> towards the artists of this hobby, and I'm the farmer
> type. I like to know 
> the "what's", "how's", and "why's". The "where's" just
> don't seem to 
> interest me.
> A great resource, but it just ain't my bag, baby.
> Different strokes for 
> different folks.
> 
> *I was a member last year, but didn't renew this year.
> All there was to it 
> to me was support of the hobby and TAG. AGA needs to step
> out of the past a 
> little, become more vital. [An above member] made some
> excellent 
> observations.
> 
> *Wow, I was quoted $600 or $1200 in products for their
> auctions. That's 
> equates to several months of advertising with 1/4 page
> ads in some mag like 
> TFH. It's just not cost effective to advertise with the
> AGA as it stands 
> now.
> I do support their efforts but would like to see the
> organization offer a 
> lot more for the beginners to the aquatic plant hobby
> than just pictures of 
> their events.
> 
> *When it comes to supporting the hobby, the small vendors
> do more "hands on" 
> than the big boys any day.
> All in all my membership in the AGA gave me a few copies
> of TAG that in 
> reality provided nothing but a few articles of general
> interest and the 
> impression that it's really just focused on bringing
> Amano's philosophy to 
> the US as opposed to helping the US hobby develop it's
> own direction.
> 
> *Why join the AGA when "Planted Tank" answers all my
> questions free?
> 
> *Well, Phil, you asked an important question, and I think
> there's a 
> consensus here.
> 
> *[Person], I still don't know what you are talking about!
> Auctions? You mean 
> for the convention? You have always been able to donate
> any amount or any 
> product you wish for the event...their event sponsorship
> may be more costly, 
> I have no idea.
> I will say one thing in defense of their magazine...I am
> sure they would 
> love to expand it, but getting people to write something
> is very difficult. 
> All the articles are donated, even Amano's as far as I
> know. When they got 
> Amano to contribute the magazine went up a few notches,
> but if people want 
> it to exapand further, they must be willing to contribute
> articles.
> Its funny, one major critisism of the magazine used to be
> that it did not 
> focus enough on the artistic aquascaping part of the
> hobby, and was too dry 
> and scientific. Now that it incorporates some of that,
> some people see that 
> as a negative. The biggest problem is just lack of
> material to have a more 
> balanced format for everyone.
> 
> *I would really like to hear some comments from Phil or
> some of the other 
> AGA folks about some of the opinions that have been
> expressed here and on 
> the other boards about this topic. Feedback on the
> feedback, to be sure this 
> is the kind of information you are looking for.
> I have been doing some thinking on this. Here are some of
> my ideas to 
> improve the AGA. Now, I realize there are staffing and
> logistical 
> shortcomings to some of my ideas here, but they are only
> suggestions.
> Build up a base. I think it would be rather easy for the
> AGA to help build 
> up a base of local plant clubs. Instead of looking for
> existing clubs, AGA 
> could help develop those clubs. I am sure most existing
> members of AGA are 
> already members of existing clubs, so put together an
> outline on how to form 
> a club, give ideas on how to conduct a meeting, some
> basic rules, and 
> possibly provide some copies of TAG to people who are
> interested in starting 
> a new club. Allow those clubs to affiliate themselves
> with the AGA directly. 
> For instance, I have a small group here in North Jersey.
> We have a very 
> loose organization. Under some basic guidance provided by
> the AGA, this 
> loose group could become a more cohesive club. Now if
> you?d ?sanction? the 
> club, you would have the North Jersey AGA. There could be
> the same thing in 
> Chicago (ChiAGA), LA (LAAGA), Juno (JunoAGA), anywhere.
> Now you have 
> developed a base of clubs, all directly affiliated with
> the AGA. Some of 
> those clubs will be more active than others, no doubt,
> but at least you have 
> those clubs out there. That is supporting the hobby! In
> turn, the clubs will 
> support the AGA. Being affiliated with AGA, all club
> members would be 
> members of AGA and pay dues. The clubs would continue to
> support the AGA by 
> providing venues for future conventions. There is no
> convention this year 
> because there is no one to host it. I understand not all
> clubs will be able 
> to host an AGA convention, but you will have increased
> the possible 
> destination for the convention by helping create local
> clubs. All it will 
> cost the AGA is some time in developing the materials
> (and I know that is 
> precious).
> If the club idea were to work out, it could open up a
> world of opportunity 
> for AGA members. There is the possibility of working out
> discounted group 
> purchases from some of the AGA corporate sponsors. A web
> to help distribute 
> new plants throughout the AGA. All the advantages to
> being part of a large 
> community would be open to members of the AGA. That is my
> idea of supporting 
> the hobby.
> 
> *This is an excellent idea, but it would take a long time
> to accomplish. We 
> have worked/are working on a similar program for existing
> clubs. As soon as 
> ACA is over, I will be happy to provide more info on
> that.
> And I send out LOTS of free TAGs, membership gift
> certificates, and 
> brochures to any club that asks. E-mail me at membership
> at 
> aquatic-gardeners.org at least two weeks before your
> event.
> As far as TAG goes, well, you can't please everyone. But
> we try really hard. 
> We have talked seriously about expanding TAG. Heck, the
> last issue had four 
> additional pages and no one even noticed. But to expand
> further we need more 
> authors, more members and a couple more advertisers.
> Four-color printing 
> ain't cheap, folks!
> I have to go back to TAG 18-3 before Karen finds out I'm
> playing on the 
> forums.
> -Cheryl
> 
> *
> But we try really hard.
> No doubt, Cheryl! All of your efforts show. TAG is really
> moving forward.
> Quote:
> This is an excellent idea, but it would take a long time
> to accomplish.
> The "but" is very discouraging. It would take time to
> accomplish, but that 
> shouldn't be a reason not to try it.
> Doing this is going to come at a minimal financial cost
> to the AGA. Those 
> costs being some printed materials, basically. The cost
> would come time 
> wise, but once that initial time investment is made, that
> should be it.
> Working with the existing clubs is great, but it is not
> going to do anything 
> to move the AGA forward. Those clubs are already invested
> in the AGA, I am 
> sure. Those members are already supporting the AGA. You
> need new venues to 
> grow the AGA, to increase membership. TAG is only going
> to get better with 
> increased membership. More people involved, more
> resources for TAG. 
> Articles, photographs, tips, a wealth of information for
> members of the AGA 
> by members of the AGA.
> AGA conventions need to be hosted by someone, and AGA
> conventions can only 
> grow with increased membership.
> I really think following through on this train of thought
> can only make the 
> AGA better.
> 
> *Being a total noob to plants and not a member, may I add
> my two pennies 
> worth anyway?
> The first I ever heard of you is through all the numerous
> links people post 
> to your competition entries.
> So focus on this strength! Build the competition up! Be a
> UEFA, a FIFA, an 
> Olympic organising committee, aRoyal Horticultural
> Society (Chelsea flower 
> show), a Crufts dog show. Concentrate on being an
> organising body for a 
> prestigious high quality competition. Everything else
> will stem (scuse the 
> pun) from that focus.
> And then all the little local groups will be enthused. So
> I think the 
> general consensus I'm reading here that you should be
> more an umbrella group 
> covering smaller local groups is the way to go.
> I can even imagine an Annual Aquascaping Show like the
> Chelsea Flower Show 
> <http://www.rhs.org.uk/chelsea/2005/index.asp> , where
> groups from all over 
> the world have a week or so to set up a live
> display/exhibit for 
> competition.
> Set it up in the same place every year, where there are
> plenty of other 
> tourists anyway like LA, SF or NY (like the flower show
> is in London). Don't 
> just focus on already planted tank owners. 99% of the
> people coming through 
> the gates at the flower show can only wish to have the
> gardens on display 
> there. But they have gardens and can dream. Just like
> millions of people 
> have aquariums too. They'll come to awe and marvel and be
> inspired by all 
> the entries. And pay. And sponsors will too. The more
> people throught the 
> turnstiles, the more sponsorships.
> Mucho tourists. Mucho ticket sales. Mucho city
> sponsorship as an annual 
> tourist event.
> Think big!
> 
> *I will put my money where my mouth is. If I can help the
> AGA in any way, 
> please let me know. I'd be happy to pitch in and get
> involved. -Ed. note: 
> This guy's a member and significant participant at The
> Planted Tank.  We 
> should find a use for him, anyone need a gopher?
> 
> *While I have been a hobbist for over 20 years I'm fairly
> new using the 
> internet for my hobby. I have only recently started
> hearing about your 
> organization. At first I was kind of excited about
> becoming a member. But 
> prowling around on the internet I can find most of the
> information that your 
> magazine offers. While I am still thinking of becomeing a
> member I think I 
> might just buy all of your back issues of your magazine
> (cost about the same 
> as a year membership). I have the feeling that I'm not
> going to get any 
> better info than I do from TFH magazine that I pay $19 a
> year for. The 
> discounts on your books are good but with the exception
> of the Tropica book 
> I can do much better on the web. I have never seen
> anything about your 
> organization in any of the LFS that I frequent. While the
> internet is 
> wonderful It is not the only way nor the most effective
> way IMO to let 
> people know your out there. I would love for their to be
> a good unfied voice 
> out their for the aquarium hobby but right now the best I
> see out there are 
> the forums with their various bias.
> 
> *I highly doubt anyone would suggest TFH articles are at
> the same level as 
> TAG.  Having written for both mags, I might know.
> 
> *I agree with [above AGA member] about bringing in the
> small clubs. Also you 
> could add a page on your website that for contact people
> so others can find 
> out about clubs in their area. I recently found out a
> person I work with is 
> also in the hobby. When we got to talking, I found out
> she frequents 
> different plant boards than I do. The only common site we
> went to was AGA's 
> to look at the annual competition photos. With local
> clubs, it could not 
> only grow membership, but it would help band us together
> so that vendors 
> could help get better products to the planted community
> for cheaper prices.
> Less cost equals more people interested in our hobby. Who
> knows, maybe in 
> the future I can get Ludwiga Cuba at Walmart instead of
> "mystery plant 
> bulbs". Or I could get a light fixture that I don't have
> to spend extra 
> money on to replace the acintic's that I don't need.
> 
> *I in no way meant to compare the quality and technical
> aspects of your news 
> letter to a magazine designed for the masses. What I
> meant was that for 
> level I am at in the hobby and from what I have seen from
> your sample 
> articles I feel as though I would be better served by
> TFH. (again commenting 
> on what I know about you organization from what others
> have said and what I 
> am able to gather from your web site) Its like the
> difference between an 
> article on some aspect of oceanograpghy from the National
> Geographic vs one 
> written in the American Society of Limnology and
> Oceanography (ASLO) 
> journal. Which one do you percieve is going to be of more
> use to you in your 
> hobby of walking the beach? I get the feeling that is a
> core in your 
> organization that is truly dedicated to something. Rather
> than asking "us" 
> what we want it to be maybe you should ask yourselves
> that. If you want to 
> be the biggest thing out there for planted tanks and
> aquaculture your going 
> to wind up with some homogenous entity like TFH in order
> to try and please 
> everyone. If you look back at all of these posts there
> are many different 
> ideas as posters.
> BTW I will be ordering some of your back issues because I
> would realy like 
> something "more" than I get from the mass magazines. I
> bought a bunch of 
> their nags before having a subscription. Well its late
> and I'm rambling time 
> for bed.
> 
> *Also you could add a page on your website that for
> contact people so others 
> can find out about clubs in their area.
> Great idea.
> 
> *"Yes, but how would this be different than the links
> page we already have?"
> If it was a seperate page then all lumped into the links
> changes are it 
> would be found easier. Exp if the there were links on the
> site that say 
> "Find a local Club in Your Area" On the Club page not
> only provide a link 
> but invite each club to write a little 1 papragraph blurb
> about themselves 
> and post the club logo, if there is one.
> 
> *I looked at the web page today and was going to join. I
> was going for the 
> summer special. Why no extra large T shirts? Thats what
> it will take for me 
> to give it a try an extra large T shirt.
> 
> *I really like the idea of club sponsorships. But is Tag
> avalible anywhere 
> retail? I would consider that option.
> 
> *I joined because I wanted to support the expansion of
> the planted tank 
> hobby. I also joined so I could get a completely, plant
> specific magazine 
> with top quality contributors.
> 
> *I also joined to get a plant specific magazine. I hope
> not only to learn 
> more about the new techniques in the hobby but to see how
> other accomplished 
> plant Aquarians are doing their aquascapes as well as how
> others maintain 
> their tanks.
> 
> * I joined for the convention (always a blast) and for
> the chance to be 
> involved in other AGA-sponsored activities.
> 
> *Well, i am not a member......yet. I recieved one of the
> first issues way 
> back in the day, and then got out of the hobby. With me
> being re-introduced 
> to the hobby i fully intend to join. I totally agree with
> what Hawk and 
> everyone else had to say. TFH doesnt do enough focus on
> plant tanks (or 
> dwarf cichlids) in my opinion. I will definately spend my
> money for a 
> subscription.
> 
> *joined because I was afraid Phil would kick me in the
> ass if I didn't. Its 
> a good magazine considering it is put out by a group of
> hobbyists with busy 
> lives who don't get paid for it! -RPH.
> 
> Here's a comment I got from someone last night in a
> conversation.  "This 
> isn't the 60's and the AGA isn't a Kennedy."
> 
> So, that's the best information from the largest source
> of people I could 
> come up with without travelling around the world asking
> peole myself.  I 
> hope this helps us somehow.
> 
> Regards,
> Phil
> 
> >
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\froman\fcharset0
> Times New Roman;}{\f1\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}}
> {\colortbl ;\red0\green0\blue255;}
> \viewkind4\uc1\pard\sb100\sa100\f0\fs24 * I joined for a
> few reasons. I really wanted to get TAG, I wanted to
> support a great organization, and, hopefully one day,
> attend the AGA show. \line One thing I would like to see
> happen is for TAG to come out more than it does. How
> about every other month instead of every three? \par
> * I joined to meet the people I had read so much from for
> so long. So I joined when I signed up for the convention.
> \line I keep the membership because I want to support the
> group. I volunteer (T-shirt mailer) because I want to
> support the group. \line My money is just money but my
> time is priceless -- so I give money AND time!\par
> *I also joined to get the Tag, but I failed to renew my
> membership this year. Besides the Takashi \cf1\ul Amano
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone
>  authored articles, 90% of the content could be found
> here and other online places. I also get a sense of
> comraderie (sp?) here that is lacking from the AGA, at
> least at my participation level. I keep kicking around
> the idea of joining again for 2 main reasons:\line 1)
> Miss TAG. Unless I go and print out all the articles I
> want to read, viewing online requires my butt to be stuck
> in my chair in front of the cold glow of my CRT, not
> lounging in on a couch, or being outside, or laying on
> the floor in front of my fish tanks.\line 2) Want to
> purchase all the convention DVD's. I missed \cf1\ul Amano
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone
>  at DC this past november, dispite living not 2 hours
> from DC. I would also love to be able to watch all the
> speake!
>  rs from 04 and previous years.\line\line The major
> reason I didn't renew this year is I don't see a benefit,
> besides TAG, to join AGA. Example, when I joined AAA, I
> get all kinds of benefits. I know the AGA and AAA are
> completely different, but AAA makes a great example of
> member benefits. I also don't see a 'mission' of the AGA.
> There doesn't seem to be a goal, focus or push for the
> AGA, besides TAG (beating that one to death) and having
> conventions (which I have heard isnt happening in
> 05).\line\line Maybe the AGA should form a stronger
> connection to places such as here and regional clubs like
> GWAPA, the Dallas-Fort Worth club, and the San Fran club.
> Plus, where is the annual TFH Plant issue featuring lots
> of AGA members authoring articles as happens with
> cichlids and the ACA each year! You want to promote the
> hobby, there is one way to do it!\line\line Guess simply,
> I just don't see a reason to join.\line\line
> Disclaimer:\line I am probably unaware of many services
> and b!
>  enefits of joining and it is my own ignorance that
> shapes my viewpoint
> 
> s.\par
> * As a member (need to renew...), I like the TAG, most of
> it anyway, but I really don't get much more out of it.
> The conventions are usually too far away, and there's not
> one this year. I see this as a problem, and brings me to
> think where the AGA stands in the "big picture." Many
> larger cities have well established clubs/societies, and
> one might tend to percieve the AGA as the top of the
> aquatic plant club food chain, partially due to the major
> conventions held each year. However, with local clubs,
> the internet, and sites such as this one, the AGA is on
> the verge of extinction IMHO.\line\line I think the AGA
> needs to have more of a worldwide presence, and I don't
> think \cf1\ul Amano
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone
>  can do it all. What about the other countries and their
> talents? \line\line There's so much information still
> left to discover. The TAG needs to be more in-depth and
> thorough, with relative articles. Very detailed a!
>  nd scientific articles of plant species (that are
> actually used in aquatic gardening), nutrient info
> (similar to what Tom B is doing), detailed info about
> algae, aquascaping, contest winner's aquarium info
> (interviews), and similar stuff should be the focus of
> TAG. I would say either increase the frequency of the
> journal, or send a "book" every 3 months (I think
> increased frequency would be better). Out of all the
> talented people on this planet, I'm sure articles
> shouldn't be a problem. Who won 1st place at ADA this
> year? I want to every last detail about that tank from
> the owner, not "here's the tank pic, cool ain't it?" Get
> him/her on the phone, email, in person, whatever, and
> pick their brain. Then write an article that doesn't skip
> every other detail.\line\line Of course, it all comes
> down to money. The glossy-paged TAG isn't cheap to
> produce I'm sure. Conventions aren't cheap. You could
> increase membership fees, but I don't think that would be
> a good idea at this point!
>   in time. T-shirts don't make money. So what do you do?
> Booths at majo
> 
> r conventions, like the one at ACA is a good idea, but
> AGA can't be everywhere--or can they? The AGA needs to
> develop regionally, possibly with representatives at the
> major clubs locales. If you look at the AGA as a
> corporation, corporations have regional and division
> offices. That's something to think about, or at least a
> direction to explore.\line\line Back to the money, you
> either need more of it, or more cost effective ways of
> doing things. I think technology is the way to go, as in
> a web-site that does it all. It could host the electronic
> version of TAG (no need to print as many copies), video
> interviews, and real-time streaming media--such as an AGA
> convention--at a price of course. Can't make the show?
> Then simply have a seat in your easy chair, pop a cold
> one, and indulge yourself. Beats gas prices. This is my
> answer, as these are the questions we deal with in my
> graduate program, and techology is driving it as
> well.\line\line With any relatively new society, there a!
>  re many issues like lack of money, lack of time, lack of
> technology, etc., but we can't sit around waiting for the
> answer to come to us. We, as a group, must come together
> to get it off the ground. The answers are out there. I am
> willing do what I can with the time I have, and I'm sure
> there's others that feel that way as well, but a handfull
> can't do it all.\par
> * Phil, you know I'm not much for "me too" posts so I was
> reluctant to speak my mind since others have said much
> about what I think already. \line I am an ex-member and I
> can't find a good reason to renew. Basically I found I
> was paying $20 for 4 issues of TAG and most of that was
> rehashed info except for the Amamo articles. So in
> essence it was $5 an issue for an Amamo article. \line
> I'd like to see the AGA be an umbrella group for the
> myriad local clubs where your membership in the local
> group extends to covering the overall AGA membership.
> Much as MASNA is in on the marine side, or the SCCA is in
> the sports car realm. \line How to accomplish these
> things? Frankly I have no idea. I do wish you the best of
> luck in attracting me and other people that think the AGA
> is superfluous, back.\par
> *as a member from abroad, this organisation does not give
> much other then the xelent TAG magazine. joined once and
> will not renew\par
> *I have thought of joining to support what it \i could\i0
>  (does) stand for, but never have. Frankly, I can't see
> the value for my money other than TAG. But I feel that
> with so much information out here on the web, it's almost
> redundant. Nevertheless, I think it is a good
> organization, which could have a major impact on the
> hobby. Perhaps it could take a role in promoting aquatic
> gardening through lfs's, or maybe get a major chain for
> sponsorship. For example, let's say a chain, Pet Smart,
> could be talked into being a major sponsor. AGA could
> provide information and education on how to set up a
> planted tank and each Pet Smart could have a planted
> display tank with the works - CO2, good lighting, etc.
> The chain could sell all the equipment needed, from
> regulators to ferts, and provide some real knowledge to
> folks who might be interested in setting up a planted
> tank. Just ramblings, but perhaps...\par
> * I also agree with [above person's] input.\par
> *New members: have them spot lighted and regonized when
> they do enter the club. Have the speaker/welcomer spot
> light them at the meeting, or in TAG. Ask, "what do you
> keep?" How many tanks? How long in the hobby?"
> etc....\line Local clubs that do this seem to retain good
> membership. \line This makes the new folks much more
> welcomed.\line They wander off otherwise. \line This
> might help retain folks once they join and stick with it,
> rather than phase in/out or only do it one time etc.\line
> Little welcome baggies of plant stuff is a nice way of
> saying "Hi" also for new members.\line It's not like we
> do not have enough stuff we can give away for peanuts
> that will make them much more likely to get
> involved......\line TAG: best tank O month, or new member
> tanks........\line Happy thought fer the day.....\par
> *I joined but let it lapse. TAG offered little for me, I
> don't follow \cf1\ul Amano
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone
>  or subscribe to his design focus so as far as I'm
> concerned, I was paying my hard earned money supporting
> something that doesn't coincide with where I want my
> hobby to go. I've found articles in other aquaria related
> magazines to be of much more practical value in helping
> me achieve my own vision so I moved on.\par
> *  I joined the AGA last year since it was a requirement
> for attending the AGA Conference. If it hadn't been for
> that I probably wouldn't have joined! \line That being
> said, I did renew my membership to try and help support
> the hobby. Unlike some others, TAG hasn't been much of a
> factor in my membership status. \line As has been stated
> before, most of the articles have already appeared on
> various sites, with the exception of \cf1\ul Amano
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone
> 's articles, which I usually skip over. I like some of
> \cf1\ul Amano
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone
> 's work, but it is not something I want to read about or
> try to duplicate. \line I do have to applaud TAG for
> finally getting some other Aquascapers out in the open. I
> liked Luis Navarro's article on setting up his tank. I
> would like to see more of these types of articles (maybe
> the Senske's setting up a tank). I re!
>  alize TAG relies on it's readers to submit articles so
> we are only going to get out of it what we put into it.
> As for me, I renewed my membership which is about all I
> can give to AGA for the time being.\par
>  * Why not make this forum the official forum of the AGA:
> "AGA Plant Central"? Supporting members who donate over a
> certain minimum amount could then gain access to a .pdf
> version of TAG.\par
> *I joined last year and when my membership expired I
> renewed it through a club sponsored (SFBAAPS) membership
> drive...more out of a sense of duty to the hobby in
> general rather than support for the AGA
> specifically.\line Like most others have already stated,
> it seems the only benefit to joining is the TAG
> subscription. Having produced corporate publications in
> the past I know how hard it can be just getting
> content/advertising for a quarterly pub. Doing it monthly
> is a full-time job.\line Organizations like AAA and SCAA
> have been mentioned, but you need to consider that these
> are fully staffed corporations. Since the AGA is staffed
> with people who have real day jobs I don't think we can
> ever expect that level of member services.\line Even the
> convention is solely dependent on a local club to get the
> event coordinated. The reason why there isn't one this
> year is because no local club was able to submit a bid to
> host the event. For me to consider the AGA to be 'real'
> national !
>  organization it needs to be able to run these types of
> event from the top down. In the corporate world you don't
> rely on a local user group to coordinate and host your
> world wide user conference.\line I guess my point is that
> until the AGA becomes a fully funded business, with a
> full-time staff dedicated to the ADA's events and
> promotions it'll never be more than a glorified
> 'club'.\par
> *I have never joined AGA, I have toyed with the idea but
> I can readily find everything I want to know online. If I
> wasn't a poor student I would probably join APC and then
> maybe AGA. I do really like how AGA puts on conventions
> yearly (or almost yearly) and hopefully I can go to one
> someday. I also really like the online bookshop from AGA.
> I think the best thing for AGA is to support local clubs
> and help recruit new folks to the planted tank ranks.\par
> *So far I joined for TAG and just to support the planted
> hobby. I'm really not quite sure what I'm 'expecting' for
> my money, as the education, etc. I get from the internet
> and the socializing from my plant club, etc. Sorry I
> can't be more helpful \par
> * Phil, we discussed the merits as a club within
> SFBAAPS.\line I use to put "[name here] -- AGA" under my
> sig some years ago, many folks did. It showed you were
> serious about aquatic weeds. ADA was not around, folks
> had much more growing problems, many folks did not have
> access to certain species they now do nor products.\line
> Folks have come very large way in a relatively short time
> and the art aspect is catching up to that rapidly these
> days.\line I predicted that a long time ago, but as that
> change has evolved, so has the AGA.\line I think
> any(local as well) club needs to really focus on the
> comoradery with new folks. We have many repeat folks that
> join the AGA and most clubs while new membership wanders
> in/out.\line Like plants, you must give them what they
> need to grow.\line If you have things you want to change,
> by all means hop on board the AGA and become that
> change.\par
> *I've been a subscriber for a variety of reasons and
> certainly, at least initially, TAG was a big part. So
> were the videos of previous Conventions. But frankly the
> size of the AGA is very much a problem. Until the
> membership size increases we will be stuck with limited
> funds and limited opportunities. I would think that
> trying to align ourselves with other smaller groups such
> as NANFA might open additional opportunities and help
> defray the cost of running a convention if they could be
> timed and coordinated together. And being frank...I'm a
> bit disappointed that the sole focus seems to be on the
> aquascaping part of planted tanks and we never see much
> about teaming our gardening skills with fish selection
> and care. While there are other Associations that focus
> on fish they still discuss and educate membership about
> plants. We seem to leave that part of the equation out of
> the mix. Most of the folks I encounter that are turned
> off by the AGA give reasons such as too much emphas!
>  is on plants with little regard to fishkeeping.
> Somewhere it seems to me as though we lost the fact that
> as much as we love our plants it is still the fish that
> are the stars. Growing healthy plants in a pleasing
> aquascape is great...having the same with beautiful
> healthy fish is spectacular. To me it seems that while
> the focus should always remain about plants, it should
> not be so exclusive of fish...especially if we want a
> larger base of appeal.\par
> *Good point, [above member]!\line I discussed the same
> train of thought at length:\line\cf1\ul
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...9185#post169185
>
<http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=169185>\cf0\ulnone\line\par
> *I joined for the combined benefits of the discount on
> your materials that you sell on the web, along with your
> magazine.\line But I think it is important to note,
> you're asking two questions:\line 1) What do you want AGA
> to be?\line 2) Why did you join?\line I just answered the
> second question. If you are asking the first question, I
> believe the AGA can best serve the community by
> establishing and publishing standards and best practices
> in the aquatic gardening community. Also to serve as a
> focal point for representing to vendors those changes the
> community needs them to make in their product lines to
> best serve this community.\par
> *I joined the AGA for a couple of reasons.\line I joined
> the AGA to help support the hobby in general, to receive
> TAG and to purchase some of the books available through
> the AGA.\line I will renew my membership.\line What do I
> want the AGA to be? That is a tough one. \line I believe
> the AGA could be more of a "clearing house" of
> information. \line Take a look at the website. Under the
> "Featured Articles" section there are only eight
> articles. One of them is an obituary of sorts, one is a
> book review, there are contest results from 1997 and a
> list. Each one well written, no doubt, but lacking. The
> rest of the website is book/DVD/T-shirt sales, photos of
> people who attended the conventions and some links. The
> website doesn't offer very much. Far to little for the
> prestigious position the AGA holds. TAG is a nice little
> publication, but AGA needs to offer more to hobbyists.
> \line I'd like to see more information on the website. A
> lot of the info you might find in the FAQs secti!
>  on of this and a lot of other planted aquarium forums
> should be articles available from the AGA. DIY CO2
> reactor plans, how to set up a pressurized CO2 system,
> things like that. They need to be on the AGA website. The
> AGA needs to be the place to turn to for basic
> information. \line TAG is a nice little publication.
> Great photos and nice articles. Understanding production
> costs, it would be nice to see the magazine expanded even
> further. I'd gladly pay a higher membership fee to
> receive a bigger issue of TAG, or receive it more
> frequently. \par
> *I checked into sponsoring the AGA a couple of years ago
> but your sponsorship rates were so high that I just
> couldn't justify expending that kind of operating capital
> on just one sponsorship. I'd love to help you guys out
> but it's just too costly.\par
> *What's the AGA?\line What's TAG?\par
> *Del must be talking about advertising in TAG, and I
> agree, the rate is much to high for the number of people
> it reaches. Big companies like Seachem can afford to drop
> a few hundred bucks just to make them look supportive,
> but little guys have to spend money for advertising that
> will earn a return. The big magazines reach thousands of
> people.\line I would like to see the AGA, (Aquatic
> Gardeners Association) reach out more to the general
> public and take a more active role in promoting the hobby
> and educating the public. Open the convention to non
> members or hold public seminars. Be more of a trade
> organization, (no I do not mean trade as in trading
> plants) than a buddy club.\line TAG is The Aquatic
> Gardener, the magazine put out by the group which is the
> primary thing you get by becoming a member of the
> AGA.\par
> *Sorry for the second post, but I forgot to mention
> something important IMO...\line The annual Aquascaping
> Contest does a great deal to promote the hobby, and is a
> great service and tradition that AGA should really
> continue.\par
> *I enjoy and use the AGA website, but never had the urge
> to join because I'm not much of an aquascaper. I just
> like to grow weeds and keep fish. Most of my planted
> tanks are "severely" overgrown. AGA seems to be angled
> more towards the artists of this hobby, and I'm the
> farmer type. I like to know the "what's", "how's", and
> "why's". The "where's" just don't seem to interest
> me.\line A great resource, but it just ain't my bag,
> baby. Different strokes for different folks.\par
> *I was a member last year, but didn't renew this year.
> All there was to it to me was support of the hobby and
> TAG. AGA needs to step out of the past a little, become
> more vital. [An above member] made some excellent
> observations.\par
> *Wow, I was quoted $600 or $1200 in products for their
> auctions. That's equates to several months of advertising
> with 1/4 page ads in some mag like TFH. It's just not
> cost effective to advertise with the AGA as it stands
> now.\line I do support their efforts but would like to
> see the organization offer a lot more for the beginners
> to the aquatic plant hobby than just pictures of their
> events.\par
> *When it comes to supporting the hobby, the small vendors
> do more "hands on" than the big boys any day.\line All in
> all my membership in the AGA gave me a few copies of TAG
> that in reality provided nothing but a few articles of
> general interest and the impression that it's really just
> focused on bringing Amano's philosophy to the US as
> opposed to helping the US hobby develop it's own
> direction. \par
> *Why join the AGA when "Planted Tank" answers all my
> questions free?\par
> *Well, Phil, you asked an important question, and I think
> there's a consensus here.\par
> *[Person], I still don't know what you are talking about!
> Auctions? You mean for the convention? You have always
> been able to donate any amount or any product you wish
> for the event...their event sponsorship may be more
> costly, I have no idea.\line I will say one thing in
> defense of their magazine...I am sure they would love to
> expand it, but getting people to write something is very
> difficult. All the articles are donated, even Amano's as
> far as I know. When they got Amano to contribute the
> magazine went up a few notches, but if people want it to
> exapand further, they must be willing to contribute
> articles.\line Its funny, one major critisism of the
> magazine used to be that it did not focus enough on the
> artistic aquascaping part of the hobby, and was too dry
> and scientific. Now that it incorporates some of that,
> some people see that as a negative. The biggest problem
> is just lack of material to have a more balanced format
> for everyone.\par
> *I would really like to hear some comments from Phil or
> some of the other AGA folks about some of the opinions
> that have been expressed here and on the other boards
> about this topic. Feedback on the feedback, to be sure
> this is the kind of information you are looking for.\line
> I have been doing some thinking on this. Here are some of
> my ideas to improve the AGA. Now, I realize there are
> staffing and logistical shortcomings to some of my ideas
> here, but they are only suggestions.\line Build up a
> base. I think it would be rather easy for the AGA to help
> build up a base of local plant clubs. Instead of looking
> for existing clubs, AGA could help develop those clubs. I
> am sure most existing members of AGA are already members
> of existing clubs, so put together an outline on how to
> form a club, give ideas on how to conduct a meeting, some
> basic rules, and possibly provide some copies of TAG to
> people who are interested in starting a new club. Allow
> those clubs to affiliate themselv!
>  es with the AGA directly. For instance, I have a small
> group here in North Jersey. We have a very loose
> organization. Under some basic guidance provided by the
> AGA, this loose group could become a more cohesive club.
> Now if you\rquote d \ldblquote sanction\rdblquote  the
> club, you would have the North Jersey AGA. There could be
> the same thing in Chicago (ChiAGA), LA (LAAGA), Juno
> (JunoAGA), anywhere. Now you have developed a base of
> clubs, all directly affiliated with the AGA. Some of
> those clubs will be more active than others, no doubt,
> but at least you have those clubs out there. That is
> supporting the hobby! In turn, the clubs will support the
> AGA. Being affiliated with AGA, all club members would be
> members of AGA and pay dues. The clubs would continue to
> support the AGA by providing venues for future
> conventions. There is no convention this year because
> there is no one to host it. I understand not all clubs
> will be able to host an AGA convention, but you will have
> inc!
>  reased the possible destination for the convention by
> helping create l
> 
> ocal clubs. All it will cost the AGA is some time in
> developing the materials (and I know that is
> precious).\line If the club idea were to work out, it
> could open up a world of opportunity for AGA members.
> There is the possibility of working out discounted group
> purchases from some of the AGA corporate sponsors. A web
> to help distribute new plants throughout the AGA. All the
> advantages to being part of a large community would be
> open to members of the AGA. That is my idea of supporting
> the hobby.\par
> *This is an excellent idea, but it would take a long time
> to accomplish. We have worked/are working on a similar
> program for existing clubs. As soon as ACA is over, I
> will be happy to provide more info on that.\line And I
> send out LOTS of free TAGs, membership gift certificates,
> and brochures to any club that asks. E-mail me at
> membership at aquatic-gardeners.org at least two weeks
> before your event. \line As far as TAG goes, well, you
> can't please everyone. But we try really hard. We have
> talked seriously about expanding TAG. Heck, the last
> issue had four additional pages and no one even noticed.
> But to expand further we need more authors, more members
> and a couple more advertisers. Four-color printing ain't
> cheap, folks!\line I have to go back to TAG 18-3 before
> Karen finds out I'm playing on the forums. \line Cheryl
> \par
> *\par
> \trowd\trgaph90\trbrdrt\brdrdb\brdrw10
> \trbrdrb\brdrdb\brdrw10 \cellx9360\pard\intbl But we try
> really hard. \cell\row
> \pard\sb100\sa100 No doubt, Cheryl! All of your efforts
> show. TAG is really moving forward.\par
> Quote: \par
> \trowd\trgaph90\cellx9360\pard\intbl This is an excellent
> idea, but it would take a long time to accomplish.
> \cell\row
> \pard\sb100\sa100 The "but" is very discouraging. It
> would take time to accomplish, but that shouldn't be a
> reason not to try it. \line Doing this is going to come
> at a minimal financial cost to the AGA. Those costs being
> some printed materials, basically. The cost would come
> time wise, but once that initial time investment is made,
> that should be it. \line Working with the existing clubs
> is great, but it is not going to do anything to move the
> AGA forward. Those clubs are already invested in the AGA,
> I am sure. Those members are already supporting the AGA.
> You need new venues to \i grow \i0 the AGA, to \i
> increase\i0  membership. TAG is only going to get better
> with increased membership. More people involved, more
> resources for TAG. Articles, photographs, tips, a wealth
> of information for members of the AGA by members of the
> AGA. \line AGA conventions need to be hosted by someone,
> and AGA conventions can only grow with increased
> membership. \line I really think following th!
>  rough on this train of thought can only make the AGA
> better.\par
> *Being a total noob to plants and not a member, may I add
> my two pennies worth anyway?\line The first I ever heard
> of you is through all the numerous links people post to
> your competition entries.\line So focus on this strength!
> Build the competition up! Be a UEFA, a FIFA, an Olympic
> organising committee, aRoyal Horticultural Society
> (Chelsea flower show), a Crufts dog show. Concentrate on
> being an organising body for a prestigious high quality
> competition. Everything else will stem (scuse the pun)
> from that focus.\line And then all the little local
> groups will be enthused. So I think the general consensus
> I'm reading here that you should be more an umbrella
> group covering smaller local groups is the way to
> go.\line I can even imagine an Annual Aquascaping Show
> like the \cf1\ul Chelsea Flower Show
> <http://www.rhs.org.uk/chelsea/2005/index.asp>\cf0\ulnone
>  , where groups from all over the world have a week or so
> to set up a live display/exhibit for competition. \line
> Set it u!
>  p in the same place every year, where there are plenty
> of other tourists anyway like LA, SF or NY (like the
> flower show is in London). Don't just focus on already
> planted tank owners. 99% of the people coming through the
> gates at the flower show can only wish to have the
> gardens on display there. But they have gardens and can
> dream. Just like millions of people have aquariums too.
> They'll come to awe and marvel and be inspired by all the
> entries. And pay. And sponsors will too. The more people
> throught the turnstiles, the more sponsorships.\line
> Mucho tourists. Mucho ticket sales. Mucho city
> sponsorship as an annual tourist event.\line Think big!
> \line\line *I will put my money where my mouth is. If I
> can help the AGA in any way, please let me know. I'd be
> happy to pitch in and get involved. -Ed. note: This guy's
> a member and significant participant at The Planted Tank.
>  We should find a use for him, anyone need a gopher?\par
> *While I have been a hobbist for over 20 years I'm fairly
> new using the internet for my hobby. I have only recently
> started hearing about your organization. At first I was
> kind of excited about becoming a member. But prowling
> around on the internet I can find most of the information
> that your magazine offers. While I am still thinking of
> becomeing a member I think I might just buy all of your
> back issues of your magazine (cost about the same as a
> year membership). I have the feeling that I'm not going
> to get any better info than I do from TFH magazine that I
> pay $19 a year for. The discounts on your books are good
> but with the exception of the Tropica book I can do much
> better on the web. I have never seen anything about your
> organization in any of the LFS that I frequent. While the
> internet is wonderful It is not the only way nor the most
> effective way IMO to let people know your out there. I
> would love for their to be a good unfied voice out their
> for the aquarium hobby bu!
>  t right now the best I see out there are the forums with
> their various bias.\par
> *I highly doubt anyone would suggest TFH articles are at
> the same level as TAG.  Having written for both mags, I
> might know.\par
> *I agree with [above AGA member] about bringing in the
> small clubs. Also you could add a page on your website
> that for contact people so others can find out about
> clubs in their area. I recently found out a person I work
> with is also in the hobby. When we got to talking, I
> found out she frequents different plant boards than I do.
> The only common site we went to was AGA's to look at the
> annual competition photos. With local clubs, it could not
> only grow membership, but it would help band us together
> so that vendors could help get better products to the
> planted community for cheaper prices.\line Less cost
> equals more people interested in our hobby. Who knows,
> maybe in the future I can get Ludwiga Cuba at Walmart
> instead of "mystery plant bulbs". Or I could get a light
> fixture that I don't have to spend extra money on to
> replace the acintic's that I don't need.\par
> *I in no way meant to compare the quality and technical
> aspects of your news letter to a magazine designed for
> the masses. What I meant was that for level I am at in
> the \i hobby\i0  and from what I have seen from your
> sample articles I feel as though I would be better served
> by TFH. (again commenting on what I know about you
> organization from what others have said and what I am
> able to gather from your web site) Its like the
> difference between an article on some aspect of
> oceanograpghy from the \i National Geographic\i0  vs one
> written in the \i American Society of Limnology and
> Oceanography (ASLO)\i0  journal. Which one do you
> percieve is going to be of more use to you in your hobby
> of walking the beach? I get the feeling that is a core in
> your organization that is truly dedicated to something.
> Rather than asking "us" what we want it to be maybe you
> should ask yourselves that. If you want to be the biggest
> thing out there for planted tanks and aquaculture your
> going to win!
>  d up with some homogenous entity like TFH in order to
> try and please everyone. If you look back at all of these
> posts there are many different ideas as posters.\line BTW
> I will be ordering some of your back issues because I
> would realy like something "more" than I get from the
> mass magazines. I bought a bunch of their nags before
> having a subscription. Well its late and I'm rambling
> time for bed.\par
> *\par
> \trowd\trgaph90\trbrdrt\brdrdb\brdrw10
> \trbrdrb\brdrdb\brdrw10 \cellx9360\pard\intbl Also you
> could add a page on your website that for contact people
> so others can find out about clubs in their
> area.\cell\row
> \pard\sb100\sa100 Great idea. \par
> *\par
> \trowd\trgaph90\trbrdrt\brdrdb\brdrw10
> \trbrdrb\brdrdb\brdrw10 \cellx9360\pard\intbl Yes, but
> how would this be different than the links page we
> already have? -Cheryl Rogers\cell\row
> \pard\sb100\sa100\line If it was a seperate page then all
> lumped into the links changes are it would be found
> easier. Exp if the there were links on the site that say
> "Find a local Club in Your Area" On the Club page not
> only provide a link but invite each club to write a
> little 1 papragraph blurb about themselves and post the
> club logo, if there is one. \par
> *I looked at the web page today and was going to join. I
> was going for the summer special. Why no extra large T
> shirts? Thats what it will take for me to give it a try
> an extra large T shirt.\par
> *I really like the idea of club sponsorships. But is Tag
> avalible anywhere retail? I would consider that
> option.\par
> *I joined because I wanted to support the expansion of
> the planted tank hobby. I also joined so I could get a
> completely, plant specific magazine with top quality
> contributors.\par
> *I also joined to get a plant specific magazine. I hope
> not only to learn more about the new techniques in the
> hobby but to see how other accomplished plant Aquarians
> are doing their aquascapes as well as how others maintain
> their tanks. \line\line * I joined for the convention
> (always a blast) and for the chance to be involved in
> other AGA-sponsored activities.\par
> *Well, i am not a member......yet. I recieved one of the
> first issues way back in the day, and then got out of the
> hobby. With me being re-introduced to the hobby i fully
> intend to join. I totally agree with what Hawk and
> everyone else had to say. TFH doesnt do enough focus on
> plant tanks (or dwarf cichlids) in my opinion. I will
> definately spend my money for a subscription. \par
> *joined because I was afraid Phil would kick me in the
> ass if I didn't. Its a good magazine considering it is
> put out by a group of hobbyists with busy lives who don't
> get paid for it! -RPH.  \par
> \par
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> }
> 
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