[AGA-mcm] Super long feedback on the AGA from three forums

["Phil Edwards" <biotypical@hotmail.com>]

Hey folks, before getting into this I recommend locking yourself away with a 
nice glass of your preferred beverage and a nice cozy chair.  This one's 
long.  I've also included the file as an attachment for your later perusal.  
I apologize for the mushed together-ness of the message.  Everything was cut 
and pasted directly from the people's input.  Only names were removed except 
in some cases where it wouldn't really cause a problem, such as comments by 
cheryl and RPH at the end.  Asterisks denote different groups of comments.  
Most of the time it's different people, other times it's further commentary 
by previous contributors.

* I joined for a few reasons. I really wanted to get TAG, I wanted to 
support a great organization, and, hopefully one day, attend the AGA show.
One thing I would like to see happen is for TAG to come out more than it 
does. How about every other month instead of every three?

* I joined to meet the people I had read so much from for so long. So I 
joined when I signed up for the convention.
I keep the membership because I want to support the group. I volunteer 
(T-shirt mailer) because I want to support the group.
My money is just money but my time is priceless -- so I give money AND time! 
-Ann Viverette

*I also joined to get the Tag, but I failed to renew my membership this 
year. Besides the Takashi Amano 
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20> 
authored articles, 90% of the content could be found here and other online 
places. I also get a sense of comraderie (sp?) here that is lacking from the 
AGA, at least at my participation level. I keep kicking around the idea of 
joining again for 2 main reasons:
1) Miss TAG. Unless I go and print out all the articles I want to read, 
viewing online requires my butt to be stuck in my chair in front of the cold 
glow of my CRT, not lounging in on a couch, or being outside, or laying on 
the floor in front of my fish tanks.
2) Want to purchase all the convention DVD's. I missed Amano 
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20> at DC 
this past november, dispite living not 2 hours from DC. I would also love to 
be able to watch all the speakers from 04 and previous years.

*The major reason I didn't renew this year is I don't see a benefit, besides 
TAG, to join AGA. Example, when I joined AAA, I get all kinds of benefits. I 
know the AGA and AAA are completely different, but AAA makes a great example 
of member benefits. I also don't see a 'mission' of the AGA. There doesn't 
seem to be a goal, focus or push for the AGA, besides TAG (beating that one 
to death) and having conventions (which I have heard isnt happening in 05).
Maybe the AGA should form a stronger connection to places such as here and 
regional clubs like GWAPA, the Dallas-Fort Worth club, and the San Fran 
club. Plus, where is the annual TFH Plant issue featuring lots of AGA 
members authoring articles as happens with cichlids and the ACA each year! 
You want to promote the hobby, there is one way to do it!
Guess simply, I just don't see a reason to join.
Disclaimer:
I am probably unaware of many services and benefits of joining and it is my 
own ignorance that shapes my viewpoints.

* As a member (need to renew...), I like the TAG, most of it anyway, but I 
really don't get much more out of it. The conventions are usually too far 
away, and there's not one this year. I see this as a problem, and brings me 
to think where the AGA stands in the "big picture." Many larger cities have 
well established clubs/societies, and one might tend to percieve the AGA as 
the top of the aquatic plant club food chain, partially due to the major 
conventions held each year. However, with local clubs, the internet, and 
sites such as this one, the AGA is on the verge of extinction IMHO.

I think the AGA needs to have more of a worldwide presence, and I don't 
think Amano 
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20> can do 
it all. What about the other countries and their talents?

There's so much information still left to discover. The TAG needs to be more 
in-depth and thorough, with relative articles. Very detailed and scientific 
articles of plant species (that are actually used in aquatic gardening), 
nutrient info (similar to what Tom B is doing), detailed info about algae, 
aquascaping, contest winner's aquarium info (interviews), and similar stuff 
should be the focus of TAG. I would say either increase the frequency of the 
journal, or send a "book" every 3 months (I think increased frequency would 
be better). Out of all the talented people on this planet, I'm sure articles 
shouldn't be a problem. Who won 1st place at ADA this year? I want to every 
last detail about that tank from the owner, not "here's the tank pic, cool 
ain't it?" Get him/her on the phone, email, in person, whatever, and pick 
their brain. Then write an article that doesn't skip every other detail.

Of course, it all comes down to money. The glossy-paged TAG isn't cheap to 
produce I'm sure. Conventions aren't cheap. You could increase membership 
fees, but I don't think that would be a good idea at this point in time. 
T-shirts don't make money. So what do you do? Booths at major conventions, 
like the one at ACA is a good idea, but AGA can't be everywhere--or can 
they? The AGA needs to develop regionally, possibly with representatives at 
the major clubs locales. If you look at the AGA as a corporation, 
corporations have regional and division offices. That's something to think 
about, or at least a direction to explore.

Back to the money, you either need more of it, or more cost effective ways 
of doing things. I think technology is the way to go, as in a web-site that 
does it all. It could host the electronic version of TAG (no need to print 
as many copies), video interviews, and real-time streaming media--such as an 
AGA convention--at a price of course. Can't make the show? Then simply have 
a seat in your easy chair, pop a cold one, and indulge yourself. Beats gas 
prices. This is my answer, as these are the questions we deal with in my 
graduate program, and techology is driving it as well.

With any relatively new society, there are many issues like lack of money, 
lack of time, lack of technology, etc., but we can't sit around waiting for 
the answer to come to us. We, as a group, must come together to get it off 
the ground. The answers are out there. I am willing do what I can with the 
time I have, and I'm sure there's others that feel that way as well, but a 
handfull can't do it all.

* Phil, you know I'm not much for "me too" posts so I was reluctant to speak 
my mind since others have said much about what I think already.
I am an ex-member and I can't find a good reason to renew. Basically I found 
I was paying $20 for 4 issues of TAG and most of that was rehashed info 
except for the Amamo articles. So in essence it was $5 an issue for an Amamo 
article.
I'd like to see the AGA be an umbrella group for the myriad local clubs 
where your membership in the local group extends to covering the overall AGA 
membership. Much as MASNA is in on the marine side, or the SCCA is in the 
sports car realm.
How to accomplish these things? Frankly I have no idea. I do wish you the 
best of luck in attracting me and other people that think the AGA is 
superfluous, back.

*as a member from abroad, this organisation does not give much other then 
the xelent TAG magazine. joined once and will not renew

*I have thought of joining to support what it could (does) stand for, but 
never have. Frankly, I can't see the value for my money other than TAG. But 
I feel that with so much information out here on the web, it's almost 
redundant. Nevertheless, I think it is a good organization, which could have 
a major impact on the hobby. Perhaps it could take a role in promoting 
aquatic gardening through lfs's, or maybe get a major chain for sponsorship. 
For example, let's say a chain, Pet Smart, could be talked into being a 
major sponsor. AGA could provide information and education on how to set up 
a planted tank and each Pet Smart could have a planted display tank with the 
works - CO2, good lighting, etc. The chain could sell all the equipment 
needed, from regulators to ferts, and provide some real knowledge to folks 
who might be interested in setting up a planted tank. Just ramblings, but 
perhaps...

* I also agree with [previous person's] input.

*New members: have them spot lighted and regonized when they do enter the 
club. Have the speaker/welcomer spot light them at the meeting, or in TAG. 
Ask, "what do you keep?" How many tanks? How long in the hobby?" etc....
Local clubs that do this seem to retain good membership.
This makes the new folks much more welcomed.
They wander off otherwise.
This might help retain folks once they join and stick with it, rather than 
phase in/out or only do it one time etc.
Little welcome baggies of plant stuff is a nice way of saying "Hi" also for 
new members.
It's not like we do not have enough stuff we can give away for peanuts that 
will make them much more likely to get involved......
TAG: best tank O month, or new member tanks........
Happy thought fer the day.....

*I joined but let it lapse. TAG offered little for me, I don't follow Amano 
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20> or 
subscribe to his design focus so as far as I'm concerned, I was paying my 
hard earned money supporting something that doesn't coincide with where I 
want my hobby to go. I've found articles in other aquaria related magazines 
to be of much more practical value in helping me achieve my own vision so I 
moved on.

*  I joined the AGA last year since it was a requirement for attending the 
AGA Conference. If it hadn't been for that I probably wouldn't have joined!
That being said, I did renew my membership to try and help support the 
hobby. Unlike some others, TAG hasn't been much of a factor in my membership 
status.
As has been stated before, most of the articles have already appeared on 
various sites, with the exception of Amano 
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>'s 
articles, which I usually skip over. I like some of Amano 
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>'s work, 
but it is not something I want to read about or try to duplicate.
I do have to applaud TAG for finally getting some other Aquascapers out in 
the open. I liked Luis Navarro's article on setting up his tank. I would 
like to see more of these types of articles (maybe the Senske's setting up a 
tank). I realize TAG relies on it's readers to submit articles so we are 
only going to get out of it what we put into it. As for me, I renewed my 
membership which is about all I can give to AGA for the time being.

* Why not make this forum the official forum of the AGA: "AGA Plant 
Central"? Supporting members who donate over a certain minimum amount could 
then gain access to a .pdf version of TAG.

*I joined last year and when my membership expired I renewed it through a 
club sponsored (SFBAAPS) membership drive...more out of a sense of duty to 
the hobby in general rather than support for the AGA specifically.
Like most others have already stated, it seems the only benefit to joining 
is the TAG subscription. Having produced corporate publications in the past 
I know how hard it can be just getting content/advertising for a quarterly 
pub. Doing it monthly is a full-time job.
Organizations like AAA and SCAA have been mentioned, but you need to 
consider that these are fully staffed corporations. Since the AGA is staffed 
with people who have real day jobs I don't think we can ever expect that 
level of member services.
Even the convention is solely dependent on a local club to get the event 
coordinated. The reason why there isn't one this year is because no local 
club was able to submit a bid to host the event. For me to consider the AGA 
to be 'real' national organization it needs to be able to run these types of 
event from the top down. In the corporate world you don't rely on a local 
user group to coordinate and host your world wide user conference.
I guess my point is that until the AGA becomes a fully funded business, with 
a full-time staff dedicated to the ADA's events and promotions it'll never 
be more than a glorified 'club'.

*I have never joined AGA, I have toyed with the idea but I can readily find 
everything I want to know online. If I wasn't a poor student I would 
probably join APC and then maybe AGA. I do really like how AGA puts on 
conventions yearly (or almost yearly) and hopefully I can go to one someday. 
I also really like the online bookshop from AGA. I think the best thing for 
AGA is to support local clubs and help recruit new folks to the planted tank 
ranks.

*So far I joined for TAG and just to support the planted hobby. I'm really 
not quite sure what I'm 'expecting' for my money, as the education, etc. I 
get from the internet and the socializing from my plant club, etc. Sorry I 
can't be more helpful

* Phil, we discussed the merits as a club within SFBAAPS.
I use to put "[name here] -- AGA" under my sig some years ago, many folks 
did. It showed you were serious about aquatic weeds. ADA was not around, 
folks had much more growing problems, many folks did not have access to 
certain species they now do nor products.
Folks have come very large way in a relatively short time and the art aspect 
is catching up to that rapidly these days.
I predicted that a long time ago, but as that change has evolved, so has the 
AGA.
I think any(local as well) club needs to really focus on the comoradery with 
new folks. We have many repeat folks that join the AGA and most clubs while 
new membership wanders in/out.
Like plants, you must give them what they need to grow.
If you have things you want to change, by all means hop on board the AGA and 
become that change.

*I've been a subscriber for a variety of reasons and certainly, at least 
initially, TAG was a big part. So were the videos of previous Conventions. 
But frankly the size of the AGA is very much a problem. Until the membership 
size increases we will be stuck with limited funds and limited 
opportunities. I would think that trying to align ourselves with other 
smaller groups such as NANFA might open additional opportunities and help 
defray the cost of running a convention if they could be timed and 
coordinated together. And being frank...I'm a bit disappointed that the sole 
focus seems to be on the aquascaping part of planted tanks and we never see 
much about teaming our gardening skills with fish selection and care. While 
there are other Associations that focus on fish they still discuss and 
educate membership about plants. We seem to leave that part of the equation 
out of the mix. Most of the folks I encounter that are turned off by the AGA 
give reasons such as too much emphasis on plants with little regard to 
fishkeeping. Somewhere it seems to me as though we lost the fact that as 
much as we love our plants it is still the fish that are the stars. Growing 
healthy plants in a pleasing aquascape is great...having the same with 
beautiful healthy fish is spectacular. To me it seems that while the focus 
should always remain about plants, it should not be so exclusive of 
fish...especially if we want a larger base of appeal.

*Good point, [above member]!
I discussed the same train of thought at length:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...9185#post169185 
<http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=169185>

*I joined for the combined benefits of the discount on your materials that 
you sell on the web, along with your magazine.
But I think it is important to note, you're asking two questions:
1) What do you want AGA to be?
2) Why did you join?
I just answered the second question. If you are asking the first question, I 
believe the AGA can best serve the community by establishing and publishing 
standards and best practices in the aquatic gardening community. Also to 
serve as a focal point for representing to vendors those changes the 
community needs them to make in their product lines to best serve this 
community.

*I joined the AGA for a couple of reasons.
I joined the AGA to help support the hobby in general, to receive TAG and to 
purchase some of the books available through the AGA.
I will renew my membership.
What do I want the AGA to be? That is a tough one.
I believe the AGA could be more of a "clearing house" of information.
Take a look at the website. Under the "Featured Articles" section there are 
only eight articles. One of them is an obituary of sorts, one is a book 
review, there are contest results from 1997 and a list. Each one well 
written, no doubt, but lacking. The rest of the website is book/DVD/T-shirt 
sales, photos of people who attended the conventions and some links. The 
website doesn't offer very much. Far to little for the prestigious position 
the AGA holds. TAG is a nice little publication, but AGA needs to offer more 
to hobbyists.
I'd like to see more information on the website. A lot of the info you might 
find in the FAQs section of this and a lot of other planted aquarium forums 
should be articles available from the AGA. DIY CO2 reactor plans, how to set 
up a pressurized CO2 system, things like that. They need to be on the AGA 
website. The AGA needs to be the place to turn to for basic information.
TAG is a nice little publication. Great photos and nice articles. 
Understanding production costs, it would be nice to see the magazine 
expanded even further. I'd gladly pay a higher membership fee to receive a 
bigger issue of TAG, or receive it more frequently.

*I checked into sponsoring the AGA a couple of years ago but your 
sponsorship rates were so high that I just couldn't justify expending that 
kind of operating capital on just one sponsorship. I'd love to help you guys 
out but it's just too costly.

*What's the AGA?
What's TAG?

*Del must be talking about advertising in TAG, and I agree, the rate is much 
to high for the number of people it reaches. Big companies like Seachem can 
afford to drop a few hundred bucks just to make them look supportive, but 
little guys have to spend money for advertising that will earn a return. The 
big magazines reach thousands of people.
I would like to see the AGA, (Aquatic Gardeners Association) reach out more 
to the general public and take a more active role in promoting the hobby and 
educating the public. Open the convention to non members or hold public 
seminars. Be more of a trade organization, (no I do not mean trade as in 
trading plants) than a buddy club.
TAG is The Aquatic Gardener, the magazine put out by the group which is the 
primary thing you get by becoming a member of the AGA.

*Sorry for the second post, but I forgot to mention something important 
IMO...
The annual Aquascaping Contest does a great deal to promote the hobby, and 
is a great service and tradition that AGA should really continue.

*I enjoy and use the AGA website, but never had the urge to join because I'm 
not much of an aquascaper. I just like to grow weeds and keep fish. Most of 
my planted tanks are "severely" overgrown. AGA seems to be angled more 
towards the artists of this hobby, and I'm the farmer type. I like to know 
the "what's", "how's", and "why's". The "where's" just don't seem to 
interest me.
A great resource, but it just ain't my bag, baby. Different strokes for 
different folks.

*I was a member last year, but didn't renew this year. All there was to it 
to me was support of the hobby and TAG. AGA needs to step out of the past a 
little, become more vital. [An above member] made some excellent 
observations.

*Wow, I was quoted $600 or $1200 in products for their auctions. That's 
equates to several months of advertising with 1/4 page ads in some mag like 
TFH. It's just not cost effective to advertise with the AGA as it stands 
now.
I do support their efforts but would like to see the organization offer a 
lot more for the beginners to the aquatic plant hobby than just pictures of 
their events.

*When it comes to supporting the hobby, the small vendors do more "hands on" 
than the big boys any day.
All in all my membership in the AGA gave me a few copies of TAG that in 
reality provided nothing but a few articles of general interest and the 
impression that it's really just focused on bringing Amano's philosophy to 
the US as opposed to helping the US hobby develop it's own direction.

*Why join the AGA when "Planted Tank" answers all my questions free?

*Well, Phil, you asked an important question, and I think there's a 
consensus here.

*[Person], I still don't know what you are talking about! Auctions? You mean 
for the convention? You have always been able to donate any amount or any 
product you wish for the event...their event sponsorship may be more costly, 
I have no idea.
I will say one thing in defense of their magazine...I am sure they would 
love to expand it, but getting people to write something is very difficult. 
All the articles are donated, even Amano's as far as I know. When they got 
Amano to contribute the magazine went up a few notches, but if people want 
it to exapand further, they must be willing to contribute articles.
Its funny, one major critisism of the magazine used to be that it did not 
focus enough on the artistic aquascaping part of the hobby, and was too dry 
and scientific. Now that it incorporates some of that, some people see that 
as a negative. The biggest problem is just lack of material to have a more 
balanced format for everyone.

*I would really like to hear some comments from Phil or some of the other 
AGA folks about some of the opinions that have been expressed here and on 
the other boards about this topic. Feedback on the feedback, to be sure this 
is the kind of information you are looking for.
I have been doing some thinking on this. Here are some of my ideas to 
improve the AGA. Now, I realize there are staffing and logistical 
shortcomings to some of my ideas here, but they are only suggestions.
Build up a base. I think it would be rather easy for the AGA to help build 
up a base of local plant clubs. Instead of looking for existing clubs, AGA 
could help develop those clubs. I am sure most existing members of AGA are 
already members of existing clubs, so put together an outline on how to form 
a club, give ideas on how to conduct a meeting, some basic rules, and 
possibly provide some copies of TAG to people who are interested in starting 
a new club. Allow those clubs to affiliate themselves with the AGA directly. 
For instance, I have a small group here in North Jersey. We have a very 
loose organization. Under some basic guidance provided by the AGA, this 
loose group could become a more cohesive club. Now if you?d ?sanction? the 
club, you would have the North Jersey AGA. There could be the same thing in 
Chicago (ChiAGA), LA (LAAGA), Juno (JunoAGA), anywhere. Now you have 
developed a base of clubs, all directly affiliated with the AGA. Some of 
those clubs will be more active than others, no doubt, but at least you have 
those clubs out there. That is supporting the hobby! In turn, the clubs will 
support the AGA. Being affiliated with AGA, all club members would be 
members of AGA and pay dues. The clubs would continue to support the AGA by 
providing venues for future conventions. There is no convention this year 
because there is no one to host it. I understand not all clubs will be able 
to host an AGA convention, but you will have increased the possible 
destination for the convention by helping create local clubs. All it will 
cost the AGA is some time in developing the materials (and I know that is 
precious).
If the club idea were to work out, it could open up a world of opportunity 
for AGA members. There is the possibility of working out discounted group 
purchases from some of the AGA corporate sponsors. A web to help distribute 
new plants throughout the AGA. All the advantages to being part of a large 
community would be open to members of the AGA. That is my idea of supporting 
the hobby.

*This is an excellent idea, but it would take a long time to accomplish. We 
have worked/are working on a similar program for existing clubs. As soon as 
ACA is over, I will be happy to provide more info on that.
And I send out LOTS of free TAGs, membership gift certificates, and 
brochures to any club that asks. E-mail me at membership at 
aquatic-gardeners.org at least two weeks before your event.
As far as TAG goes, well, you can't please everyone. But we try really hard. 
We have talked seriously about expanding TAG. Heck, the last issue had four 
additional pages and no one even noticed. But to expand further we need more 
authors, more members and a couple more advertisers. Four-color printing 
ain't cheap, folks!
I have to go back to TAG 18-3 before Karen finds out I'm playing on the 
forums.
-Cheryl

*
But we try really hard.
No doubt, Cheryl! All of your efforts show. TAG is really moving forward.
Quote:
This is an excellent idea, but it would take a long time to accomplish.
The "but" is very discouraging. It would take time to accomplish, but that 
shouldn't be a reason not to try it.
Doing this is going to come at a minimal financial cost to the AGA. Those 
costs being some printed materials, basically. The cost would come time 
wise, but once that initial time investment is made, that should be it.
Working with the existing clubs is great, but it is not going to do anything 
to move the AGA forward. Those clubs are already invested in the AGA, I am 
sure. Those members are already supporting the AGA. You need new venues to 
grow the AGA, to increase membership. TAG is only going to get better with 
increased membership. More people involved, more resources for TAG. 
Articles, photographs, tips, a wealth of information for members of the AGA 
by members of the AGA.
AGA conventions need to be hosted by someone, and AGA conventions can only 
grow with increased membership.
I really think following through on this train of thought can only make the 
AGA better.

*Being a total noob to plants and not a member, may I add my two pennies 
worth anyway?
The first I ever heard of you is through all the numerous links people post 
to your competition entries.
So focus on this strength! Build the competition up! Be a UEFA, a FIFA, an 
Olympic organising committee, aRoyal Horticultural Society (Chelsea flower 
show), a Crufts dog show. Concentrate on being an organising body for a 
prestigious high quality competition. Everything else will stem (scuse the 
pun) from that focus.
And then all the little local groups will be enthused. So I think the 
general consensus I'm reading here that you should be more an umbrella group 
covering smaller local groups is the way to go.
I can even imagine an Annual Aquascaping Show like the Chelsea Flower Show 
<http://www.rhs.org.uk/chelsea/2005/index.asp> , where groups from all over 
the world have a week or so to set up a live display/exhibit for 
competition.
Set it up in the same place every year, where there are plenty of other 
tourists anyway like LA, SF or NY (like the flower show is in London). Don't 
just focus on already planted tank owners. 99% of the people coming through 
the gates at the flower show can only wish to have the gardens on display 
there. But they have gardens and can dream. Just like millions of people 
have aquariums too. They'll come to awe and marvel and be inspired by all 
the entries. And pay. And sponsors will too. The more people throught the 
turnstiles, the more sponsorships.
Mucho tourists. Mucho ticket sales. Mucho city sponsorship as an annual 
tourist event.
Think big!

*I will put my money where my mouth is. If I can help the AGA in any way, 
please let me know. I'd be happy to pitch in and get involved. -Ed. note: 
This guy's a member and significant participant at The Planted Tank.  We 
should find a use for him, anyone need a gopher?

*While I have been a hobbist for over 20 years I'm fairly new using the 
internet for my hobby. I have only recently started hearing about your 
organization. At first I was kind of excited about becoming a member. But 
prowling around on the internet I can find most of the information that your 
magazine offers. While I am still thinking of becomeing a member I think I 
might just buy all of your back issues of your magazine (cost about the same 
as a year membership). I have the feeling that I'm not going to get any 
better info than I do from TFH magazine that I pay $19 a year for. The 
discounts on your books are good but with the exception of the Tropica book 
I can do much better on the web. I have never seen anything about your 
organization in any of the LFS that I frequent. While the internet is 
wonderful It is not the only way nor the most effective way IMO to let 
people know your out there. I would love for their to be a good unfied voice 
out their for the aquarium hobby but right now the best I see out there are 
the forums with their various bias.

*I highly doubt anyone would suggest TFH articles are at the same level as 
TAG.  Having written for both mags, I might know.

*I agree with [above AGA member] about bringing in the small clubs. Also you 
could add a page on your website that for contact people so others can find 
out about clubs in their area. I recently found out a person I work with is 
also in the hobby. When we got to talking, I found out she frequents 
different plant boards than I do. The only common site we went to was AGA's 
to look at the annual competition photos. With local clubs, it could not 
only grow membership, but it would help band us together so that vendors 
could help get better products to the planted community for cheaper prices.
Less cost equals more people interested in our hobby. Who knows, maybe in 
the future I can get Ludwiga Cuba at Walmart instead of "mystery plant 
bulbs". Or I could get a light fixture that I don't have to spend extra 
money on to replace the acintic's that I don't need.

*I in no way meant to compare the quality and technical aspects of your news 
letter to a magazine designed for the masses. What I meant was that for 
level I am at in the hobby and from what I have seen from your sample 
articles I feel as though I would be better served by TFH. (again commenting 
on what I know about you organization from what others have said and what I 
am able to gather from your web site) Its like the difference between an 
article on some aspect of oceanograpghy from the National Geographic vs one 
written in the American Society of Limnology and Oceanography (ASLO) 
journal. Which one do you percieve is going to be of more use to you in your 
hobby of walking the beach? I get the feeling that is a core in your 
organization that is truly dedicated to something. Rather than asking "us" 
what we want it to be maybe you should ask yourselves that. If you want to 
be the biggest thing out there for planted tanks and aquaculture your going 
to wind up with some homogenous entity like TFH in order to try and please 
everyone. If you look back at all of these posts there are many different 
ideas as posters.
BTW I will be ordering some of your back issues because I would realy like 
something "more" than I get from the mass magazines. I bought a bunch of 
their nags before having a subscription. Well its late and I'm rambling time 
for bed.

*Also you could add a page on your website that for contact people so others 
can find out about clubs in their area.
Great idea.

*"Yes, but how would this be different than the links page we already have?"
If it was a seperate page then all lumped into the links changes are it 
would be found easier. Exp if the there were links on the site that say 
"Find a local Club in Your Area" On the Club page not only provide a link 
but invite each club to write a little 1 papragraph blurb about themselves 
and post the club logo, if there is one.

*I looked at the web page today and was going to join. I was going for the 
summer special. Why no extra large T shirts? Thats what it will take for me 
to give it a try an extra large T shirt.

*I really like the idea of club sponsorships. But is Tag avalible anywhere 
retail? I would consider that option.

*I joined because I wanted to support the expansion of the planted tank 
hobby. I also joined so I could get a completely, plant specific magazine 
with top quality contributors.

*I also joined to get a plant specific magazine. I hope not only to learn 
more about the new techniques in the hobby but to see how other accomplished 
plant Aquarians are doing their aquascapes as well as how others maintain 
their tanks.

* I joined for the convention (always a blast) and for the chance to be 
involved in other AGA-sponsored activities.

*Well, i am not a member......yet. I recieved one of the first issues way 
back in the day, and then got out of the hobby. With me being re-introduced 
to the hobby i fully intend to join. I totally agree with what Hawk and 
everyone else had to say. TFH doesnt do enough focus on plant tanks (or 
dwarf cichlids) in my opinion. I will definately spend my money for a 
subscription.

*joined because I was afraid Phil would kick me in the ass if I didn't. Its 
a good magazine considering it is put out by a group of hobbyists with busy 
lives who don't get paid for it! -RPH.

Here's a comment I got from someone last night in a conversation.  "This 
isn't the 60's and the AGA isn't a Kennedy."

So, that's the best information from the largest source of people I could 
come up with without travelling around the world asking peole myself.  I 
hope this helps us somehow.

Regards,
Phil

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\viewkind4\uc1\pard\sb100\sa100\f0\fs24 * I joined for a few reasons. I really wanted to get TAG, I wanted to support a great organization, and, hopefully one day, attend the AGA show. \line One thing I would like to see happen is for TAG to come out more than it does. How about every other month instead of every three? \par
* I joined to meet the people I had read so much from for so long. So I joined when I signed up for the convention. \line I keep the membership because I want to support the group. I volunteer (T-shirt mailer) because I want to support the group. \line My money is just money but my time is priceless -- so I give money AND time!\par
*I also joined to get the Tag, but I failed to renew my membership this year. Besides the Takashi \cf1\ul Amano <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone  authored articles, 90% of the content could be found here and other online places. I also get a sense of comraderie (sp?) here that is lacking from the AGA, at least at my participation level. I keep kicking around the idea of joining again for 2 main reasons:\line 1) Miss TAG. Unless I go and print out all the articles I want to read, viewing online requires my butt to be stuck in my chair in front of the cold glow of my CRT, not lounging in on a couch, or being outside, or laying on the floor in front of my fish tanks.\line 2) Want to purchase all the convention DVD's. I missed \cf1\ul Amano <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone  at DC this past november, dispite living not 2 hours from DC. I would also love to be able to watch all the speakers from 04 and previous years.\line\line The major reason I didn't renew this year is I don't see a benefit, besides TAG, to join AGA. Example, when I joined AAA, I get all kinds of benefits. I know the AGA and AAA are completely different, but AAA makes a great example of member benefits. I also don't see a 'mission' of the AGA. There doesn't seem to be a goal, focus or push for the AGA, besides TAG (beating that one to death) and having conventions (which I have heard isnt happening in 05).\line\line Maybe the AGA should form a stronger connection to places such as here and regional clubs like GWAPA, the Dallas-Fort Worth club, and the San Fran club. Plus, where is the annual TFH Plant issue featuring lots of AGA members authoring articles as happens with cichlids and the ACA each year! You want to promote the hobby, there is one way to do it!\line\line Guess simply, I just don't see a reason to join.\line\line Disclaimer:\line I am probably unaware of many services and benefits of joining and it is my own ignorance that shapes my viewpoint

s.\par
* As a member (need to renew...), I like the TAG, most of it anyway, but I really don't get much more out of it. The conventions are usually too far away, and there's not one this year. I see this as a problem, and brings me to think where the AGA stands in the "big picture." Many larger cities have well established clubs/societies, and one might tend to percieve the AGA as the top of the aquatic plant club food chain, partially due to the major conventions held each year. However, with local clubs, the internet, and sites such as this one, the AGA is on the verge of extinction IMHO.\line\line I think the AGA needs to have more of a worldwide presence, and I don't think \cf1\ul Amano <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone  can do it all. What about the other countries and their talents? \line\line There's so much information still left to discover. The TAG needs to be more in-depth and thorough, with relative articles. Very detailed and scientific articles of plant species (that are actually used in aquatic gardening), nutrient info (similar to what Tom B is doing), detailed info about algae, aquascaping, contest winner's aquarium info (interviews), and similar stuff should be the focus of TAG. I would say either increase the frequency of the journal, or send a "book" every 3 months (I think increased frequency would be better). Out of all the talented people on this planet, I'm sure articles shouldn't be a problem. Who won 1st place at ADA this year? I want to every last detail about that tank from the owner, not "here's the tank pic, cool ain't it?" Get him/her on the phone, email, in person, whatever, and pick their brain. Then write an article that doesn't skip every other detail.\line\line Of course, it all comes down to money. The glossy-paged TAG isn't cheap to produce I'm sure. Conventions aren't cheap. You could increase membership fees, but I don't think that would be a good idea at this point in time. T-shirts don't make money. So what do you do? Booths at majo

r conventions, like the one at ACA is a good idea, but AGA can't be everywhere--or can they? The AGA needs to develop regionally, possibly with representatives at the major clubs locales. If you look at the AGA as a corporation, corporations have regional and division offices. That's something to think about, or at least a direction to explore.\line\line Back to the money, you either need more of it, or more cost effective ways of doing things. I think technology is the way to go, as in a web-site that does it all. It could host the electronic version of TAG (no need to print as many copies), video interviews, and real-time streaming media--such as an AGA convention--at a price of course. Can't make the show? Then simply have a seat in your easy chair, pop a cold one, and indulge yourself. Beats gas prices. This is my answer, as these are the questions we deal with in my graduate program, and techology is driving it as well.\line\line With any relatively new society, there are many issues like lack of money, lack of time, lack of technology, etc., but we can't sit around waiting for the answer to come to us. We, as a group, must come together to get it off the ground. The answers are out there. I am willing do what I can with the time I have, and I'm sure there's others that feel that way as well, but a handfull can't do it all.\par
* Phil, you know I'm not much for "me too" posts so I was reluctant to speak my mind since others have said much about what I think already. \line I am an ex-member and I can't find a good reason to renew. Basically I found I was paying $20 for 4 issues of TAG and most of that was rehashed info except for the Amamo articles. So in essence it was $5 an issue for an Amamo article. \line I'd like to see the AGA be an umbrella group for the myriad local clubs where your membership in the local group extends to covering the overall AGA membership. Much as MASNA is in on the marine side, or the SCCA is in the sports car realm. \line How to accomplish these things? Frankly I have no idea. I do wish you the best of luck in attracting me and other people that think the AGA is superfluous, back.\par
*as a member from abroad, this organisation does not give much other then the xelent TAG magazine. joined once and will not renew\par
*I have thought of joining to support what it \i could\i0  (does) stand for, but never have. Frankly, I can't see the value for my money other than TAG. But I feel that with so much information out here on the web, it's almost redundant. Nevertheless, I think it is a good organization, which could have a major impact on the hobby. Perhaps it could take a role in promoting aquatic gardening through lfs's, or maybe get a major chain for sponsorship. For example, let's say a chain, Pet Smart, could be talked into being a major sponsor. AGA could provide information and education on how to set up a planted tank and each Pet Smart could have a planted display tank with the works - CO2, good lighting, etc. The chain could sell all the equipment needed, from regulators to ferts, and provide some real knowledge to folks who might be interested in setting up a planted tank. Just ramblings, but perhaps...\par
* I also agree with [above person's] input.\par
*New members: have them spot lighted and regonized when they do enter the club. Have the speaker/welcomer spot light them at the meeting, or in TAG. Ask, "what do you keep?" How many tanks? How long in the hobby?" etc....\line Local clubs that do this seem to retain good membership. \line This makes the new folks much more welcomed.\line They wander off otherwise. \line This might help retain folks once they join and stick with it, rather than phase in/out or only do it one time etc.\line Little welcome baggies of plant stuff is a nice way of saying "Hi" also for new members.\line It's not like we do not have enough stuff we can give away for peanuts that will make them much more likely to get involved......\line TAG: best tank O month, or new member tanks........\line Happy thought fer the day.....\par
*I joined but let it lapse. TAG offered little for me, I don't follow \cf1\ul Amano <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone  or subscribe to his design focus so as far as I'm concerned, I was paying my hard earned money supporting something that doesn't coincide with where I want my hobby to go. I've found articles in other aquaria related magazines to be of much more practical value in helping me achieve my own vision so I moved on.\par
*  I joined the AGA last year since it was a requirement for attending the AGA Conference. If it hadn't been for that I probably wouldn't have joined! \line That being said, I did renew my membership to try and help support the hobby. Unlike some others, TAG hasn't been much of a factor in my membership status. \line As has been stated before, most of the articles have already appeared on various sites, with the exception of \cf1\ul Amano <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone 's articles, which I usually skip over. I like some of \cf1\ul Amano <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0793800897/aquaticplan06-20>\cf0\ulnone 's work, but it is not something I want to read about or try to duplicate. \line I do have to applaud TAG for finally getting some other Aquascapers out in the open. I liked Luis Navarro's article on setting up his tank. I would like to see more of these types of articles (maybe the Senske's setting up a tank). I realize TAG relies on it's readers to submit articles so we are only going to get out of it what we put into it. As for me, I renewed my membership which is about all I can give to AGA for the time being.\par
 * Why not make this forum the official forum of the AGA: "AGA Plant Central"? Supporting members who donate over a certain minimum amount could then gain access to a .pdf version of TAG.\par
*I joined last year and when my membership expired I renewed it through a club sponsored (SFBAAPS) membership drive...more out of a sense of duty to the hobby in general rather than support for the AGA specifically.\line Like most others have already stated, it seems the only benefit to joining is the TAG subscription. Having produced corporate publications in the past I know how hard it can be just getting content/advertising for a quarterly pub. Doing it monthly is a full-time job.\line Organizations like AAA and SCAA have been mentioned, but you need to consider that these are fully staffed corporations. Since the AGA is staffed with people who have real day jobs I don't think we can ever expect that level of member services.\line Even the convention is solely dependent on a local club to get the event coordinated. The reason why there isn't one this year is because no local club was able to submit a bid to host the event. For me to consider the AGA to be 'real' national organization it needs to be able to run these types of event from the top down. In the corporate world you don't rely on a local user group to coordinate and host your world wide user conference.\line I guess my point is that until the AGA becomes a fully funded business, with a full-time staff dedicated to the ADA's events and promotions it'll never be more than a glorified 'club'.\par
*I have never joined AGA, I have toyed with the idea but I can readily find everything I want to know online. If I wasn't a poor student I would probably join APC and then maybe AGA. I do really like how AGA puts on conventions yearly (or almost yearly) and hopefully I can go to one someday. I also really like the online bookshop from AGA. I think the best thing for AGA is to support local clubs and help recruit new folks to the planted tank ranks.\par
*So far I joined for TAG and just to support the planted hobby. I'm really not quite sure what I'm 'expecting' for my money, as the education, etc. I get from the internet and the socializing from my plant club, etc. Sorry I can't be more helpful \par
* Phil, we discussed the merits as a club within SFBAAPS.\line I use to put "[name here] -- AGA" under my sig some years ago, many folks did. It showed you were serious about aquatic weeds. ADA was not around, folks had much more growing problems, many folks did not have access to certain species they now do nor products.\line Folks have come very large way in a relatively short time and the art aspect is catching up to that rapidly these days.\line I predicted that a long time ago, but as that change has evolved, so has the AGA.\line I think any(local as well) club needs to really focus on the comoradery with new folks. We have many repeat folks that join the AGA and most clubs while new membership wanders in/out.\line Like plants, you must give them what they need to grow.\line If you have things you want to change, by all means hop on board the AGA and become that change.\par
*I've been a subscriber for a variety of reasons and certainly, at least initially, TAG was a big part. So were the videos of previous Conventions. But frankly the size of the AGA is very much a problem. Until the membership size increases we will be stuck with limited funds and limited opportunities. I would think that trying to align ourselves with other smaller groups such as NANFA might open additional opportunities and help defray the cost of running a convention if they could be timed and coordinated together. And being frank...I'm a bit disappointed that the sole focus seems to be on the aquascaping part of planted tanks and we never see much about teaming our gardening skills with fish selection and care. While there are other Associations that focus on fish they still discuss and educate membership about plants. We seem to leave that part of the equation out of the mix. Most of the folks I encounter that are turned off by the AGA give reasons such as too much emphasis on plants with little regard to fishkeeping. Somewhere it seems to me as though we lost the fact that as much as we love our plants it is still the fish that are the stars. Growing healthy plants in a pleasing aquascape is great...having the same with beautiful healthy fish is spectacular. To me it seems that while the focus should always remain about plants, it should not be so exclusive of fish...especially if we want a larger base of appeal.\par
*Good point, [above member]!\line I discussed the same train of thought at length:\line\cf1\ul http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...9185#post169185 <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=169185>\cf0\ulnone\line\par
*I joined for the combined benefits of the discount on your materials that you sell on the web, along with your magazine.\line But I think it is important to note, you're asking two questions:\line 1) What do you want AGA to be?\line 2) Why did you join?\line I just answered the second question. If you are asking the first question, I believe the AGA can best serve the community by establishing and publishing standards and best practices in the aquatic gardening community. Also to serve as a focal point for representing to vendors those changes the community needs them to make in their product lines to best serve this community.\par
*I joined the AGA for a couple of reasons.\line I joined the AGA to help support the hobby in general, to receive TAG and to purchase some of the books available through the AGA.\line I will renew my membership.\line What do I want the AGA to be? That is a tough one. \line I believe the AGA could be more of a "clearing house" of information. \line Take a look at the website. Under the "Featured Articles" section there are only eight articles. One of them is an obituary of sorts, one is a book review, there are contest results from 1997 and a list. Each one well written, no doubt, but lacking. The rest of the website is book/DVD/T-shirt sales, photos of people who attended the conventions and some links. The website doesn't offer very much. Far to little for the prestigious position the AGA holds. TAG is a nice little publication, but AGA needs to offer more to hobbyists. \line I'd like to see more information on the website. A lot of the info you might find in the FAQs section of this and a lot of other planted aquarium forums should be articles available from the AGA. DIY CO2 reactor plans, how to set up a pressurized CO2 system, things like that. They need to be on the AGA website. The AGA needs to be the place to turn to for basic information. \line TAG is a nice little publication. Great photos and nice articles. Understanding production costs, it would be nice to see the magazine expanded even further. I'd gladly pay a higher membership fee to receive a bigger issue of TAG, or receive it more frequently. \par
*I checked into sponsoring the AGA a couple of years ago but your sponsorship rates were so high that I just couldn't justify expending that kind of operating capital on just one sponsorship. I'd love to help you guys out but it's just too costly.\par
*What's the AGA?\line What's TAG?\par
*Del must be talking about advertising in TAG, and I agree, the rate is much to high for the number of people it reaches. Big companies like Seachem can afford to drop a few hundred bucks just to make them look supportive, but little guys have to spend money for advertising that will earn a return. The big magazines reach thousands of people.\line I would like to see the AGA, (Aquatic Gardeners Association) reach out more to the general public and take a more active role in promoting the hobby and educating the public. Open the convention to non members or hold public seminars. Be more of a trade organization, (no I do not mean trade as in trading plants) than a buddy club.\line TAG is The Aquatic Gardener, the magazine put out by the group which is the primary thing you get by becoming a member of the AGA.\par
*Sorry for the second post, but I forgot to mention something important IMO...\line The annual Aquascaping Contest does a great deal to promote the hobby, and is a great service and tradition that AGA should really continue.\par
*I enjoy and use the AGA website, but never had the urge to join because I'm not much of an aquascaper. I just like to grow weeds and keep fish. Most of my planted tanks are "severely" overgrown. AGA seems to be angled more towards the artists of this hobby, and I'm the farmer type. I like to know the "what's", "how's", and "why's". The "where's" just don't seem to interest me.\line A great resource, but it just ain't my bag, baby. Different strokes for different folks.\par
*I was a member last year, but didn't renew this year. All there was to it to me was support of the hobby and TAG. AGA needs to step out of the past a little, become more vital. [An above member] made some excellent observations.\par
*Wow, I was quoted $600 or $1200 in products for their auctions. That's equates to several months of advertising with 1/4 page ads in some mag like TFH. It's just not cost effective to advertise with the AGA as it stands now.\line I do support their efforts but would like to see the organization offer a lot more for the beginners to the aquatic plant hobby than just pictures of their events.\par
*When it comes to supporting the hobby, the small vendors do more "hands on" than the big boys any day.\line All in all my membership in the AGA gave me a few copies of TAG that in reality provided nothing but a few articles of general interest and the impression that it's really just focused on bringing Amano's philosophy to the US as opposed to helping the US hobby develop it's own direction. \par
*Why join the AGA when "Planted Tank" answers all my questions free?\par
*Well, Phil, you asked an important question, and I think there's a consensus here.\par
*[Person], I still don't know what you are talking about! Auctions? You mean for the convention? You have always been able to donate any amount or any product you wish for the event...their event sponsorship may be more costly, I have no idea.\line I will say one thing in defense of their magazine...I am sure they would love to expand it, but getting people to write something is very difficult. All the articles are donated, even Amano's as far as I know. When they got Amano to contribute the magazine went up a few notches, but if people want it to exapand further, they must be willing to contribute articles.\line Its funny, one major critisism of the magazine used to be that it did not focus enough on the artistic aquascaping part of the hobby, and was too dry and scientific. Now that it incorporates some of that, some people see that as a negative. The biggest problem is just lack of material to have a more balanced format for everyone.\par
*I would really like to hear some comments from Phil or some of the other AGA folks about some of the opinions that have been expressed here and on the other boards about this topic. Feedback on the feedback, to be sure this is the kind of information you are looking for.\line I have been doing some thinking on this. Here are some of my ideas to improve the AGA. Now, I realize there are staffing and logistical shortcomings to some of my ideas here, but they are only suggestions.\line Build up a base. I think it would be rather easy for the AGA to help build up a base of local plant clubs. Instead of looking for existing clubs, AGA could help develop those clubs. I am sure most existing members of AGA are already members of existing clubs, so put together an outline on how to form a club, give ideas on how to conduct a meeting, some basic rules, and possibly provide some copies of TAG to people who are interested in starting a new club. Allow those clubs to affiliate themselves with the AGA directly. For instance, I have a small group here in North Jersey. We have a very loose organization. Under some basic guidance provided by the AGA, this loose group could become a more cohesive club. Now if you\rquote d \ldblquote sanction\rdblquote  the club, you would have the North Jersey AGA. There could be the same thing in Chicago (ChiAGA), LA (LAAGA), Juno (JunoAGA), anywhere. Now you have developed a base of clubs, all directly affiliated with the AGA. Some of those clubs will be more active than others, no doubt, but at least you have those clubs out there. That is supporting the hobby! In turn, the clubs will support the AGA. Being affiliated with AGA, all club members would be members of AGA and pay dues. The clubs would continue to support the AGA by providing venues for future conventions. There is no convention this year because there is no one to host it. I understand not all clubs will be able to host an AGA convention, but you will have increased the possible destination for the convention by helping create l

ocal clubs. All it will cost the AGA is some time in developing the materials (and I know that is precious).\line If the club idea were to work out, it could open up a world of opportunity for AGA members. There is the possibility of working out discounted group purchases from some of the AGA corporate sponsors. A web to help distribute new plants throughout the AGA. All the advantages to being part of a large community would be open to members of the AGA. That is my idea of supporting the hobby.\par
*This is an excellent idea, but it would take a long time to accomplish. We have worked/are working on a similar program for existing clubs. As soon as ACA is over, I will be happy to provide more info on that.\line And I send out LOTS of free TAGs, membership gift certificates, and brochures to any club that asks. E-mail me at membership at aquatic-gardeners.org at least two weeks before your event. \line As far as TAG goes, well, you can't please everyone. But we try really hard. We have talked seriously about expanding TAG. Heck, the last issue had four additional pages and no one even noticed. But to expand further we need more authors, more members and a couple more advertisers. Four-color printing ain't cheap, folks!\line I have to go back to TAG 18-3 before Karen finds out I'm playing on the forums. \line Cheryl \par
*\par
\trowd\trgaph90\trbrdrt\brdrdb\brdrw10 \trbrdrb\brdrdb\brdrw10 \cellx9360\pard\intbl But we try really hard. \cell\row
\pard\sb100\sa100 No doubt, Cheryl! All of your efforts show. TAG is really moving forward.\par
Quote: \par
\trowd\trgaph90\cellx9360\pard\intbl This is an excellent idea, but it would take a long time to accomplish. \cell\row
\pard\sb100\sa100 The "but" is very discouraging. It would take time to accomplish, but that shouldn't be a reason not to try it. \line Doing this is going to come at a minimal financial cost to the AGA. Those costs being some printed materials, basically. The cost would come time wise, but once that initial time investment is made, that should be it. \line Working with the existing clubs is great, but it is not going to do anything to move the AGA forward. Those clubs are already invested in the AGA, I am sure. Those members are already supporting the AGA. You need new venues to \i grow \i0 the AGA, to \i increase\i0  membership. TAG is only going to get better with increased membership. More people involved, more resources for TAG. Articles, photographs, tips, a wealth of information for members of the AGA by members of the AGA. \line AGA conventions need to be hosted by someone, and AGA conventions can only grow with increased membership. \line I really think following through on this train of thought can only make the AGA better.\par
*Being a total noob to plants and not a member, may I add my two pennies worth anyway?\line The first I ever heard of you is through all the numerous links people post to your competition entries.\line So focus on this strength! Build the competition up! Be a UEFA, a FIFA, an Olympic organising committee, aRoyal Horticultural Society (Chelsea flower show), a Crufts dog show. Concentrate on being an organising body for a prestigious high quality competition. Everything else will stem (scuse the pun) from that focus.\line And then all the little local groups will be enthused. So I think the general consensus I'm reading here that you should be more an umbrella group covering smaller local groups is the way to go.\line I can even imagine an Annual Aquascaping Show like the \cf1\ul Chelsea Flower Show <http://www.rhs.org.uk/chelsea/2005/index.asp>\cf0\ulnone  , where groups from all over the world have a week or so to set up a live display/exhibit for competition. \line Set it up in the same place every year, where there are plenty of other tourists anyway like LA, SF or NY (like the flower show is in London). Don't just focus on already planted tank owners. 99% of the people coming through the gates at the flower show can only wish to have the gardens on display there. But they have gardens and can dream. Just like millions of people have aquariums too. They'll come to awe and marvel and be inspired by all the entries. And pay. And sponsors will too. The more people throught the turnstiles, the more sponsorships.\line Mucho tourists. Mucho ticket sales. Mucho city sponsorship as an annual tourist event.\line Think big! \line\line *I will put my money where my mouth is. If I can help the AGA in any way, please let me know. I'd be happy to pitch in and get involved. -Ed. note: This guy's a member and significant participant at The Planted Tank.  We should find a use for him, anyone need a gopher?\par
*While I have been a hobbist for over 20 years I'm fairly new using the internet for my hobby. I have only recently started hearing about your organization. At first I was kind of excited about becoming a member. But prowling around on the internet I can find most of the information that your magazine offers. While I am still thinking of becomeing a member I think I might just buy all of your back issues of your magazine (cost about the same as a year membership). I have the feeling that I'm not going to get any better info than I do from TFH magazine that I pay $19 a year for. The discounts on your books are good but with the exception of the Tropica book I can do much better on the web. I have never seen anything about your organization in any of the LFS that I frequent. While the internet is wonderful It is not the only way nor the most effective way IMO to let people know your out there. I would love for their to be a good unfied voice out their for the aquarium hobby but right now the best I see out there are the forums with their various bias.\par
*I highly doubt anyone would suggest TFH articles are at the same level as TAG.  Having written for both mags, I might know.\par
*I agree with [above AGA member] about bringing in the small clubs. Also you could add a page on your website that for contact people so others can find out about clubs in their area. I recently found out a person I work with is also in the hobby. When we got to talking, I found out she frequents different plant boards than I do. The only common site we went to was AGA's to look at the annual competition photos. With local clubs, it could not only grow membership, but it would help band us together so that vendors could help get better products to the planted community for cheaper prices.\line Less cost equals more people interested in our hobby. Who knows, maybe in the future I can get Ludwiga Cuba at Walmart instead of "mystery plant bulbs". Or I could get a light fixture that I don't have to spend extra money on to replace the acintic's that I don't need.\par
*I in no way meant to compare the quality and technical aspects of your news letter to a magazine designed for the masses. What I meant was that for level I am at in the \i hobby\i0  and from what I have seen from your sample articles I feel as though I would be better served by TFH. (again commenting on what I know about you organization from what others have said and what I am able to gather from your web site) Its like the difference between an article on some aspect of oceanograpghy from the \i National Geographic\i0  vs one written in the \i American Society of Limnology and Oceanography (ASLO)\i0  journal. Which one do you percieve is going to be of more use to you in your hobby of walking the beach? I get the feeling that is a core in your organization that is truly dedicated to something. Rather than asking "us" what we want it to be maybe you should ask yourselves that. If you want to be the biggest thing out there for planted tanks and aquaculture your going to wind up with some homogenous entity like TFH in order to try and please everyone. If you look back at all of these posts there are many different ideas as posters.\line BTW I will be ordering some of your back issues because I would realy like something "more" than I get from the mass magazines. I bought a bunch of their nags before having a subscription. Well its late and I'm rambling time for bed.\par
*\par
\trowd\trgaph90\trbrdrt\brdrdb\brdrw10 \trbrdrb\brdrdb\brdrw10 \cellx9360\pard\intbl Also you could add a page on your website that for contact people so others can find out about clubs in their area.\cell\row
\pard\sb100\sa100 Great idea. \par
*\par
\trowd\trgaph90\trbrdrt\brdrdb\brdrw10 \trbrdrb\brdrdb\brdrw10 \cellx9360\pard\intbl Yes, but how would this be different than the links page we already have? -Cheryl Rogers\cell\row
\pard\sb100\sa100\line If it was a seperate page then all lumped into the links changes are it would be found easier. Exp if the there were links on the site that say "Find a local Club in Your Area" On the Club page not only provide a link but invite each club to write a little 1 papragraph blurb about themselves and post the club logo, if there is one. \par
*I looked at the web page today and was going to join. I was going for the summer special. Why no extra large T shirts? Thats what it will take for me to give it a try an extra large T shirt.\par
*I really like the idea of club sponsorships. But is Tag avalible anywhere retail? I would consider that option.\par
*I joined because I wanted to support the expansion of the planted tank hobby. I also joined so I could get a completely, plant specific magazine with top quality contributors.\par
*I also joined to get a plant specific magazine. I hope not only to learn more about the new techniques in the hobby but to see how other accomplished plant Aquarians are doing their aquascapes as well as how others maintain their tanks. \line\line * I joined for the convention (always a blast) and for the chance to be involved in other AGA-sponsored activities.\par
*Well, i am not a member......yet. I recieved one of the first issues way back in the day, and then got out of the hobby. With me being re-introduced to the hobby i fully intend to join. I totally agree with what Hawk and everyone else had to say. TFH doesnt do enough focus on plant tanks (or dwarf cichlids) in my opinion. I will definately spend my money for a subscription. \par
*joined because I was afraid Phil would kick me in the ass if I didn't. Its a good magazine considering it is put out by a group of hobbyists with busy lives who don't get paid for it! -RPH.  \par
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