RE: [AGA-Member] Too Much Heat - Substrate Heating ScheduleSuggestions?

["Kirsten Klinghammer" <klingham@pacbell.net>]

:  -----Original Message-----
:  From: aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com [mailto:aga-member-
:  bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of S. Hieber
:  Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 3:12 AM
:  To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
:  Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Too Much Heat - Substrate Heating
:  ScheduleSuggestions?
:  
:  I wouldn't worry about whether the cables run much or not;
:  I'd only focus on the water temp.
:
[-- ] 

Good to know, thank you, Scott.  That's what I've been doing, but I wasn't
sure how important the cables were.

:  Remember that most of the electrical energy that goes into
:  light bulbs is shed as heat, not light. With fluorescents
:  and metal halide bulbs, the rule of thumb is about 65% of
:  inout energy is shed as heat. So your lighting is, in
:  effect a 75 watt radiant heater.
:  
:  As far as heaters go, unless you need to add heat to the
:  aquarium all the time, the safest thing, in terms of
:  maintaining a desired water temp, is to use a thermostat.
:  Unless the room temp is relatively low, the heater (whether
:  substrate cable or other) might not run at all or very
:  rarely and only when the lights are off or the lighting
:  level is low.
:  
:  An example: I used cables on a large aqaurium with a high
:  level of lighting. The heater only ran occassionally and
:  then only during about 4 months of the year. In this case,
:  heating was needed only when the room temp was below 70F,
:  which only happens during the colder months when the house
:  thermostat is set to 68F.
:
[-- ] 

I'm happy to know that the heating cables are still useful, even if they're
not used daily.
  
:  Running some of the lights for a shorter period than the
:  rest, as you are doing, in one way to lower heat input.
:  
:  You might consider dropping down from 55w bulbs to 36w
:  bulbs. This would still be plenty of light and if your
:  ballasts "self-adjusts" or can be wired for 36w bulbs (like
:  a Fulham Workhorse 3, for example), then you will be
:  substantially lowering heat input and the diff might be
:  enough that a heater is needed to maintain water temps. But
:  36w bulbs can often be run on the same ballast and wiring
:  as a 55w, slightly overdriving the bulbs but still using
:  less energy (and creating less heat) than 55w bulbs on the
:  same ballast.
:
[-- ] 

I hadn't thought of switching to a lower wattage bulbs.  If I'm not able to
get rid of the extra heat in a different fashion, I'll definitely consider
this.
  
:  More air flow over the bulbs is the best way to passively
:  reduce heat input into the tank. Short of cutting more
:  vents into your hood, raising your lights a few inches
:  above the tank can help let some of the heat from the lamps
:  escape before it gets into the tank -- and this is easy
:  enough to try and doesn't cost any money or invovle much
:  work to try, at least with conventional hoods. Installing a
:  fan can help; sometimes a room fan pointed at the hood is
:  enough depending on the particular situation, including
:  room temp.
:
[-- ] 

I'm checking into small fans (like the ones inside computers) to install in
the hood to cool the light fixture area.  Radio Shack didn't carry the size
I was looking for in 110 volt, so I may need to order them online.  

Your suggestion to elevate the hood is a good one too, and one I may
consider if I can find a stable (and preferably still attractive) way of
doing it.  At the moment I'm hesitant to cut extra vents into the hood, as I
can't put them back if it doesn't work sufficiently well.  I hadn't thought
of pointing a room fan at the hood, though - that might be the easiest of
all!
  
:  Btw, if you are not especially fond of the coloring you get
:  with the actinic lighting, you can swap out those 50/50
:  bulbs for ones with a broader spectrum. You don't need
:  actinics to grow plants; broad spectrum bulbs work just
:  fine.
: 
[-- ] 

So far I like the color just fine, but I do like broad spectrum lights too
(especially the more "natural daylight" colored ones).  I may try out the
other sort of bulbs when these need to be replaced (the 50/50 bulbs came
with the setup).  It's helpful to know that the actinic lighting isn't
needed for plants, as I wasn't sure about that.
 
:  Substrate cables are a relatively efficient means for
:  heating an aquarium if the water currents are not very
:  strong, taking advantage of convection in the water column
:  to spread the heat. If the water current is strong, there
:  will be little convection and substrate versus sump heating
:  vs heating directly in the water column won't make much
:  diff.
:
[-- ] 

I do have a fairly strong current actually, and I hadn't thought of that
affecting the convection currents in the substrate, but it certainly stands
to reason that it would.  Still, I thought part of the point of the heating
cables is to warm up the substrate, which wouldn't otherwise get as warm as
far down, and to have convection currents in the substrate draw water
through the gravel to keep it from getting anaerobic.  From what I
understand from you, it's not necessary for the substrate heating to be
constant, though.

:  Plants don't seem to care how the heat gets into the
:  aquarium.
:  
[-- ] 

Good to know.  Of course, if I can tweak everything to make them as happy as
possible, that's my goal ;-)

:  Good luck, good fun,
:  Scott H.
:
[-- ] 

I'm certainly having fun, and I really appreciate your time and your
thoughts!

Kirsten


:  --- Kirsten Klinghammer <klingham@pacbell.net> wrote:
:  
:  > Greetings, Everyone,
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > I'm a new AGA member, and I'm getting back into aquaria
:  > after not having any
:  > tanks for over 20 years.  I love plants and have set up a
:  > new aquarium
:  > (specifics below) with a substrate heating cable, which
:  > sounds like a great
:  > idea.  What I neglected to take into account is that
:  > lighting has changed
:  > greatly in the past two decades, and the wonderfully
:  > bright compact
:  > fluorescents I have now put out so much heat that it's
:  > them or the heating
:  > cables as far as heating the tank goes.  I'm trying to
:  > figure out the best
:  > way to handle this, and I'm hoping one of you out there
:  > can provide me with
:  > some guidance.
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > So, the setup:
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > 38 gallon R-375 Lifetech aquarium (I found a picture
:  > online, although ours
:  > is silver:
:  > http://www.aqlogics.com/product.asp?ProductID=6882)
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > two 55 watt 50/50 Actinic/10K Jebo compact fluorescent
:  > bulbs [the ballast
:  > needed to be replaced right away, so we put in a good
:  > quality one, and wired
:  > the bulbs so that one or both can be on]
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > R-375 submersed aquarium pump, which sends water to a
:  > wet/dry filter (with
:  > filter floss and ceramic beads/stones) in the aquarium
:  > hood; the water
:  > returns to the tank from the other end of the hood; there
:  > is also a bypass
:  > flow with a venturi valve which I have opened on full for
:  > aeration
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > Dupla Thermik 40 watt substrate heating cable, plugged
:  > into a Timex heavy
:  > duty timer which can be set by the hour
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > Eheim Jaeger 150 watt submersible heater set to a lower
:  > temperature (for
:  > backup, if needed - and I don't think I'll need it!)
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > Substrate (total substrate depth, 4 - 4 1/2 inches):
:  >
:  >   Layer 1:  1/2 - 3/4" gravel beneath heating cables (~10
:  > kg unwashed
:  > flourite)
:  >
:  >   Layer 2: ~2 kg FertiPlant laterite, ~8 kg FertiPlant
:  > Plus, and ~4 kg
:  > unwashed flourite mixed in aquarium by hand
:  >
:  >   Layer 3:  14 kg red flourite, washed to remove
:  > substantial amount of dust
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > Just added:  A yeast reactor for CO2 with airline tubing
:  > leading to a
:  > fine-bubbling airstone in the tank (following Tarah
:  > Nyberg's yeast recipe on
:  > page 26 of The Aquatic Gardner (volume 17, number 2) [I
:  > bought back issues
:  > of Planted Aquaria and TAG - I've been learning so
:  > much!])
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > The room with the aquarium is kept in the mid to high
:  > 60's (Fahrenheit)
:  > during the day, and about 70-71 at night.  The tank is
:  > not close to a
:  > window, so it doesn't receive any direct sunlight.  My
:  > goal is to keep the
:  > tank at about 79 degrees.
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > On to the obvious: TOO MUCH HEAT!
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > The aquarium hood, although sleek and beautiful, has few
:  > outlets of any sort
:  > - just two holes about 1 by 2 inches for tubing and wires
:  > to exit the
:  > aquarium, and some ventilation slits above the sealed
:  > light fixtures.  I
:  > find this appealing because it's attractive and it will
:  > keep escape-artist
:  > crustaceans from taking off, but obviously this gives me
:  > a problem with heat
:  > dissipation.  My husband and I are trying to figure out
:  > how and whether to
:  > mount a small fan in the hood above the lights to draw
:  > heat out - I'm sure
:  > we'll figure out something, but it'll be a little while
:  > before we get this
:  > all straightened out.
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > In the meantime, I've been turning on one light in the
:  > morning, about two
:  > hours later turning on the second light as well, then
:  > turning off the second
:  > light in the evening (leaving one), and turning that one
:  > off at night.  One
:  > or both lights are on probably about 14 hours total per
:  > day (based on when
:  > I'd like to be able to see the plants and tank
:  > inhabitants - only a few
:  > Amano shrimp right now).
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > Current solution:
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > I've been having the heating cables on during the night,
:  > scheduled for three
:  > hours on, one off, one on, one off,  two hours on, and
:  > off for the rest of
:  > the day (since the lights heat all-too-well during the
:  > day).  Doing this
:  > schedule I've been able to keep the tank between 79-81
:  > throughout the day
:  > and night.  However, I have no idea what makes the most
:  > sense in terms of
:  > the heating cable schedule - should I try for every other
:  > hour being on
:  > during the night?  Is it a problem to use the heating
:  > cable only at night?
:  > Is it worthless to have a heating cable if it can't be
:  > used throughout both
:  > the day and the night (not as regards expense - it's
:  > bought and installed
:  > already - but in terms of usefulness)?   For those of you
:  > who have heating
:  > cables which don't have thermostats, what on/off schedule
:  > do you use?  Any
:  > and all input would be very welcome!
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > Thank you,
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > Kirsten
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  > ****
:  >
:  > Kirsten Klinghammer
:  >
:  > Rescue, California, USA
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  >
:  >
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:  
:  
:  =====
:  Christel Kasselmann,
:  author of the best current authoritative text on aquatic plants
:  will be a featured speaker at
:  The Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies 30th Annual Convention.
:  March 18-20, 2005 at the Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT
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