Re: [SPAM] [AGA-Member] pH shock - how to support recovery?

[Heather J Gladney <hgladney@comcast.net>]

S. Hieber wrote:

> I'm not sure that I'm understanding you correctly. It
> sounds like you are saying that your regulator won't shut
> off the gas supply. IT's not meant to do that; only to drop
> down the pressure from the CO2 to something useful. In,
> fact as you get way down low on the output pressure side,
> the rgulator will be less stable and less accurate. That's
> normal unless the regulator is speically made to work at
> very very low pressures, like just 1 or 2 or 3 psi.
> However, Victors are generally expensive, high quality
> regulators.
>
> The Valve on the CO2 tank should be the one used to shut
> off the CO2 completely.
>
> Now if the problem is that the regulator won't regulate,
> won't maintain an even low side pressure down in the range
> you want, that's a diff issue. Whther the CO2 tank valve is
> opened jsut a tad or all the way, it presents the smae
> pressure tothe regulator. If open jsut a tad, then the tank
> won't be able to supply a very high volume of gas, but for
> aquaticf gardening purposes, only a very tiny volume of CO2
> is desired.
>
> The regulator won't control the amount of gas flow; it only
> controls the pressure on the output side. At what pressure
> it holds the output (or low pressure side)  depends on how
> far in or out the knob or adjustment screw is turned.
>
> To control the amount of flow, you use a metering valve
> after the regulator. You have one of these in your setup?
>  
A No-Shok needle valve follows the solenoid.  Is this sufficient as a 
metering valve?
Today I put the Victor regulator on, with no further equipment, to see 
if it was working.  It does bring the pressure down to about 25-30 psi 
but no lower.  That alarmed me enought hat I have not tried to put the 
rest of the equipment on.  From the regulator, the line goes to a 
solenoid (which goes into a Milwaukee pH meter) then to the No-Shok 
needle valve.

> The order is:
>
> CO2 tank with valve -- the valve is used to turn on or off
> the supply of CO2 to the system, like when you are changing
> tanks for a refill, you want to shut off the CO2.
>
> Regulator -- drops the pressure from the CO2 tank (usually
> about 650 to 850 psi) to a usable pressure (somewhere
> around 5-30 psi). If the regulator has two gauges on it,
> then one shows the pressure on the high side of the
> regualtor (i.e., the pressure from the CO2 tank) and the
> other the pressure on the low or output side of the
> regulator.
>
> Metering valve -- controls the amount of CO2 that passes
> through the the system in a given period -- i.e., allows
> for a high or low volume of gas flow.
>
> Solenoid (if you use one) -- an electrical low-pressure
> valve that shuts off/turns on the low side flow -- usually
> connected to a timer or a pH controller.
>
> Is your problem that you can't control the amount of CO2
> that's going into your aquarium? If so then it's the
> metering valve that's probably at fault.
>
> If you use the Milwaukee regulator, bubble counter,
> solenoid combo, I believe that combo doesn't have a
> metering valve so you need to add one to complete the
> system.
>  
It had a needle valve on it. The old setup was one of those 
locked-together pieces with a Milwaukee regulator to solenoid to needle 
valve into bubble-counter, the sort of setup commonly sold on aquarium 
websites.  When the overfilled CO2 tank blew out that regulator, and 
then the overflow wouldn't reseat, after many adventures, I got the 
Victor.  THe Milwaukee setup took some tweaking to get the flow where I 
wanted it, but once I got it set up it was fine.  I ust figure it'd be 
nice to have a regulator that doesn't die when the overflow valve gets hit.
I'd still like a bubble counter screwed inline like that, but apparently 
the Milwaukee setup uses some wierd French threading that the gas store 
guys had never seen before, and it'd be amusing trying to get adapters.  
The other buibble counters I've found have been the kind you put into 
the flexible airline, not into the needle valve
I haven't bothered to hunt down further, as part of the tank diffusion 
setup has one of those yeast-bottle bubble ladders, which I figure will 
give me a rough idea a little sooner than the pH meter.
Thanks very much for your help!
Heather

> Trying to run without a metering valve is difficult becuase
> regulators tend not to be very stable at very low pressures
> and trying to limit the CO2 flow by output pressure alone
> generally requires very low pressure or an injector that
> present high resistance to gas flow. The eheim diffusers
> are pretty high resistance but you'll want a metering valve
> with one of those setups anyway to prevent rapid tank
> dumps.
>
> sh
> --- Heather J Gladney <hgladney@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>  
>
> > Now that I'm deep in the regulator replacement, with the
> > welding gas 
> > supply shop and the Victor Company and the Airgas
> > distributor all closed 
> > for a holiay weekend, I'm finding that the regulator
> > won't shut off 
> > completely when I've barely cracked open the main tank
> > valve.
> > I can't turn on the main tank valve any further without
> > chilling the 
> > regulator and running amazing amounts of gas out.
> > I think I've got a bad regulator, although it's brand
> > new.
> > It's a Victor Medalist SR5B-320 0780-2544 for carbon
> > dioxide, to be precise.
> > The last one got killed by an overfilled CO2 tank.  That
> > blew the 
> > overpressure valve on the Milwaukee regulator/needle
> > valve/bubble 
> > counter setup, and the regulator couldn't be fixed from
> > that.
> > My family is pushing me back toward yeast bottles, and
> > this isn't helping.
> > Any suggestions from any experts in the house?
> >
> > Heather J Gladney wrote:
> >
> >    
> >
> > > I ran into this problem myself when first dealing with
> > >      
> > a weird import 
> >    
> >
> > > CO2 pressure regulator, and I'm trying not to do it
> > >      
> > again this weekend 
> >    
> >
> > > replacing it!
> > >
> > > Kirsten Klinghammer wrote:
> > >
> > >      
> > >
> > > > I was kind of thinking that, but I wasn't sure.  I
> > > >        
> > will leave the pH 
> >    
> >
> > > > alone
> > > > for now - ixnay on further water changes, CO2 use, or
> > > >        
> > anything else for
> >    
> >
> > > > today.  I appreciate you sharing your experience,
> > > >        
> > Troy.
> >    
> >
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> >
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>  



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