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RE: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2

Medium light? That's good too. I'm sure the swords and some of the
Aponogetons appreciate the stronger light (not the laces). As for the
Aponogetons liking cooler water, I've had the two Madagascar Lace Plants
for more than eight months, even through what I figured was a dormant
period. They're in the background, behind one of the bogwood stumps and
get less light. Now they send out shoots every few days. I heard the
Lace plants like cool temps like you've said, but the A. crispus and A.
boivinarius (spelling?) are not supposed to mind the higher temps,
right?. And they're big; taller than my 75-gallon. One of my smaller
Aponogetons has produced six flowers consecutively.
	As for the discus, I don't know why people keep them in
bare-bottom species tanks, other than for breeding, because they look
absolutely beautiful in planted tanks, and the larger ones don't seem as
sensitive as the juveniles (and they don't get sick as much!).
	I guess there aren't any major problems with my tank, but my C02
levels are pretty low. Maybe when such plants are grown in less strong
lighting, compared with my 4WPG tank where I keep all my bunch plants
and glosso, they don't need as much CO2. Plus, of course, the discus eat
a lot of frozen foods, and the additional build up of dissolved organics
may help my CO2 levels. However, I do 33% water changes at least 2-3
times a week.
	For a couple days no members were chatting, so I thought I'd
bring up a subject I've had trouble finding information about. And I
regard highly all of your experience and expertise and figured you could
offer some tips to optimize light levels, temp, CO2 and water chemistry
in what I consider my low-light tank.
	I still have one question regarding DIY CO2 yeast reactors: more
yeast = more CO2?

Thank you, 
-----Original Message-----
From: aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com
[mailto:aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Rogers
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:17 AM
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2

I have a couple of thoughts, not necessarily related to your question.

1. I think you have a medium-light tank. You've got nearly 2 watts per 
gallon. Therefore, it's good that you're adding CO2 or things would 
really be out of whack.

2. I don't think the Aponogetons are going to like those high 
temperatures for very long. How long have you had them? I thought they 
were low-temp plants.

who don't know nuthin' about no Discus

Adam Michels wrote:
> Yeah, that really helps. Thanks again, Scott. When I said "buffer" I
> meant "Discus buffer"; Seachem makes it. I've heard it's bad to use
> because it contains phosphates and throws off C02 chart/readings. The
> carbonate hardness in my tank is 4 degrees, because I added baking
> once, and I think it's been there ever since, and I keep crushed coral
> in my filter. With a 7.5 pH reading the C02 is between 3-5 ppm. Low!
> 	Am I going to have to add more C02? I didn't want to get a
> pressurized system for this tank; it's supposed to be my low-light
> What other kinds of acids were you talking about? I don't want to
> experiment too much, though. This is my discus tank, and they come
> first.
> 	For this tank I use DIY yeast reactors for C02. If I add more
> yeast, will I get more C02?
> Adam
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com
> [mailto:aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of S. Hieber
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:20 PM
> To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
> Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
> A buffer will raise you KH, not lower it. The easiest way
> to lower the pH is to add a mild acid. Adding CO2 will do
> this since a portion of it in water forms carbonic acid. IF
> your tapwater is 7.5, you shouldn't have any problem
> getting the pH down to discus-target levels by adding more
> CO2. If your KH was 3 degrees, 30ppm of CO2 would drop you
> down to a pH of 6.5. So with tapwater of 7.5, and not
> adding other acids, CO2 should do the trick without ever
> getting to harmful levels.
> I would probably raise the KH a couple of degrees by adding
> some calcium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate with each
> water change. A little buffering will keep the pH a bit
> steadier. Even if you raise the KH up a couple of degrees,
> you can still get a nice 6.5 pH without overdosing on CO2.
> Adding CO2 doesn't require adding more light although the
> inverse is not necessarily true.  YOu might find you need
> to add a littel more ferts or fish food -- but with discus,
> that is usually not a problem, given their ravenous
> appetites. ;-)
> hope that helps,
> sh
> --- Adam Michels <amichels@trafficleader.com> wrote:
>>Hi, everybody. I joined AGA only a few weeks ago; I was
>>wondering why
>>everyone liked mosses so much until I received the new
>>Anyway, I'm confused about achieving equilibrium in my
>>low-light plant
>>tank, and I could really use your advice.
>>Tank specs:
>>Tank: 75 gallon
>>Lighting: 4 28W T5 full-spectrum(2) and 6700K(2), 1 20W
>>fluorescent, 1
>>15W fluorescent
>>Filter: Fluval 304
>>Substrate: 2/3 Flourite, 1/3 Eco-Complete
>>CO2: 2 Hagen Nutrafin DIY yeast reactors + 2 ladders
>>Heating: 2 250W Stealth
>>Set-up: 2 10lb. plus driftwood stumps
>>Plants: 1 large Aponogeton boivinarius, 2 Aponogeton
>>madagascarensis, 1
>>Aponogeton crispus, several odd smaller Aponogetons, 12+
>>Crypts, 1 large
>>Kleiner Bar Sword, 1 Echinodorus major, 1 Echinodorus
>>osiris, several
>>large Anubias barteri tied to driftwood, mid-sized
>>Anubias congensis,
>>nana, azfeli, frazeri, Sagitarria subulata, many
>>Sagittaria pusilla
>>(Dwarf Sags), many Echinodorus tenellus and some java
>>Fish: Five 4-5" Discus, five Roseline Barbs (denisoni), 3
>>headstanders, 1 gold nugget plec (small), 1 rubbernose
>>plec (small), 1
>>pair killifish (Nothobranchius kafuensis) and 4 emerald
>>Tap water: 7.5 pH, 1 dH(17.8 ppm) carbonate hardness
>>Tank temp: 81-82 degrees F
>>Additives: Kent Freshwater Plant liquid fert. every water
>>crushed coral in the filter bed to raised KH and GH 
>>Water Parameters: NH4=0, NO2=0, NO3=less than 12 ppm, pH
>>7.5 before
>>turning off lights (haven't checked morning reading)
>>I wish I had a picture. Things are fine other than I do a
>>lot of water
>>changes. But I want my plants to flourish, and the fish
>>to enjoy water
>>parameters similar to their natural habitat. The problem
>>lies in that I
>>can't get my pH down. I do so many water changes for the
>>discus that the
>>driftwood doesn't have a chance to release enough tannic
>>acid fast
>>enough, and I don't add enough C02 to lower the pH.
>>Should I buffer? I
>>want my pH under 7.0, for sure.  
>>Am I going about this correctly? I raised my discus in a
>>species tank,
>>bare-bottom, but they don't seem to mind the new
>>additions. The killis
>>look hilarious, but I don't have any where else to put
>>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>>AGA-Member mailing list
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