Re: AGA Forums (fwd) first reply

[Erik Olson <erik@thekrib.com>]

read my questions first (at end), and decide if they were actually 
answered... I go back & forth on that one.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 13:28:14 -0500
From: JamesHoftiezer@charter.net
To: Erik Olson <erik@thekrib.com>,
     "Hoftiezer, James" <JHoftiezer@advanceamerica.net>
Subject: Re: AGA Forums

A) I know how you feel.  My databases are acting up and I've had the flu.
Between the two I've slept a few minutes here and there.

B) With phpBB, it notifies you of a response.  There is a hack to add the
text of the new message to the email notification.  Users can turn on/off
the notifications.  With InfoPoP it sends the full text of the messages in
HTML and includes the ability to respond from that point.  I have seen some
that are completely dual purpose, but they aren't free.  I'll look into all
three more.  If this does go forward, we'll use the software the AGA is most
comfortable.
I know the AGA is mostly mail list based, but the potential membership
using/more comfortable with forums is immense.

C) Liability is a big issue.  Even on the mailing lists.  Most forums I am
familiar with are very proactive in light of the Novak suits and the letter
to Rex Grigg.  While people may cry first amendment, the posting policy
(lawyer/AGA board approved :) ) must be clearly stated and posts must be
removed on request.  Moderators would also have to be alert to anything out
of line, but that's also why a moderator forum may be better.  That said, I
think the outcome of the Petswarehouse suits give the forum a perfect basis
for strict policies and that liability can be avoided.

D) There are already competing forums and mailing lists and they all survive
independently.  With personalities being what they are, not everyone will
switch exclusively.  With an AGA forum being completely non-commercial,
there is little foundation for hard feelings but as some forums are a form
of business advertising there will be some.  It is also a natural extension
of the AGA's mission to provide this type of portal and if the AGA is to
expand, its the largest potential draw for new members..
There may be cries if boards drop in activity, but I think the worst issue
would be moderators who may resign in preference to an AGA board.  Most
people simply could not moderate more than a few topics even on a single
board.  In the end I see an AGA forum being dominanant but not exclusive.

E) My intention is that the forum/board become the property of the AGA.  In
no way do I want to assert ownership of the board or allow it to be seen as
my property.  I feel that would be counterprodctive to the stated purpose.
If for some reason I was unable to continue a moderator or AGA member within
the forums would have to be promoted by the AGA board.
I am volunteering my time to establish and run the forum indefinately at the
discretion of the AGA board.  I am very flexible in that regard.  I feel
that this should be done, but do not feel that it has to be me personally.
In fact there may be people already in the AGA who would be better equipped
to do this or whom the AGA may prefer to see as senior admin, even if only
for appearance sake.  (i.e. - Ghazanfar Ghori may be better at setting up
the tech of a forum and you as president may be officially listed as senior
admin.  The moderators and members would do the day to day work.  Then I
could just be a member :) )

F) The pool of people would have to be AGA members or join the AGA.  Non
members would moderate only in the case of specialized forums such as fish.
Those people could even be asked to join the AGA or be comped
memberships(Just inthe special cases).  Forum members would not be required
to be AGA members although I think it would be an ideal to provide added
value to members in some way.  I do beleive that members should be
identified in their title or signature if possible.  Most moderators would
by coincidence already be moderators on other boards or be very active on
the mailing lists (i.e - I already moderate topics on AB.  Jay Luto, Roger
Miller and Phil Edwards are all possible.  Please keep in mind that none of
them have been aprroached in any way and are just ideas.).  With the support
of the AGA there are many other people who are prominent in the hobby, but
whom I am not familiar who may be persuaded to help in some capacity (i.e. -
tom barr, chuck gadd, george booth, etc).  People who are time restrained
could be paired as moderators with a person more technically proficient or
who has time to monitor more regularly.
They would have to be approved by the AGA board and I believe they should be
a minimum of two moderators per topic.  I also beleive that prominent names
in the AGA should be moderators for the benefit of the organization.

If there are concerns...
How about if this is presented publically as a Portal
page(aga-portal.com/net is available) that happens to have a forum of its
own.  The idea of the forum is downplayed.  Links could even be provided to
other forums in the interest of the broader public interest?  In the end,
the ideal is that hobbyists come to the AGA first as the largest source of
reliable information.

Please ask any questions you feel might be issues.  I'll investigate them as
fully as possible while keeping it private.  For instance, I'll look into
the softwares available more closely, but do not want to feel out moderators
at this time.  In needed, I'll put together a formal proposal for the board
to consider putting all the info into a single document.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Erik Olson" <erik@thekrib.com>
To: "Hoftiezer, James" <JHoftiezer@advanceamerica.net>
Cc: <jameshoftiezer@charter.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: AGA Forums


> Hi James,
>
> Just wanted to touch base with you so you know we've not tabled your
> proposal.  In reality, it's been a KILLER week for me personally at work
> and home.  The board is thrashing around the idea, and though I have to
> tell you there was a bit of a deck stacked against forums to start with
> (we're all big mailing list fans who prefer not to have to go to a website
> to read postings), the discussion is actually going quite positively.
>
> One of our first and biggest concerns was of liability.  If the AGA puts
> its name on such a forum, and we end up with some kind of legal action
> against a post, this is potentially very very bad. If we hadn't, for
> instance, made it very clear that the AGA was not connected at all with
> Novak, it would have easily bankrupted the organization in lawyer fees.
> (Corporations are required to have a lawyer if sued, and the AGA is now a
> corporation.  David Lass is going to chat with our "legal counsel" (a
> lawyer friend of his who is helping us with incorporation and other
> matters.)).
>
> Our second concern, and here I'd really like your input, is the effect on
> other forums, notably Aquabotanic.  There is a fairly large community
> there.  What do you think their reaction would be if there were to be a
> "competing" forum from the AGA?
>
> Third issue, question for you: other personnel.  Do you have some ideas
> who you will get to help moderate these forums?  Are you planning on
> managing the thing long-term, or just setting it up? If you DO plan to
> manage the overall thing, what sort of backups in case it gets popular and
> you've had enough.  From what pool are you thinking draw these people?
>
> Oh, fourth, from me: Is there a way to double-gateway web-forums with a
> mailing list, effectively unifying the two?
>
> That's probably enough questions for today.  Must go do baby stuff now.
>
>   - Erik
>
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Hoftiezer, James wrote:
>
> >
> > Erik (erik@thekrib.com),
> > Thanks for all the work you did at AGA.  I wondered many times if you
had
> > enough time to enjoy it for yourself.
> >
> > At the conference I mentioned starting a bulletin board sanctioned by
the
> > AGA.  I am still wondering if this might be an option.  I'll go a head
and
> > warn you that the rest will sound like a ramble/brainstorming session.
> >
> > It would cost $35 to have it hosted on www.ipowerweb.com(I get a
kickback)
> > for the first year, then $100/year after that.  There is plenty of
> > space(800mb) and bandwidth(30gb) available and have experience little or
no
> > downtime with them on my personal site.  The web space includes the
domain
> > name and phpBB board running on a MYSSQL database.
> >
> > I am interested in starting this project for several reasons;
> >
> > -The numerous boards and mailing lists out there prove that
forums/bulletin
> > boards are in demand by people trying to find out more about this hobby.
> > The number of boards can be confusing and hard to find.  Many people
find
> > themselves members on multiple boards.
> >
> > -With some boards having large numbers of members(AB 1475, plantedtank
1275,
> > AQ 2300, taopa 180, APD, r.a.f.p) they represent a huge pool of
potential
> > members to AGA.  The forums could attract members and potentially be an
> > added value to membership.
> >
> > -The boards out there are commercial or lack any type of authoritative
> > sanction.  AGA or ADA are the few non-commercial organizations that
could
> > sanction such a venue and have the authority to attract members from
other
> > boards.  The sanction would add credibility lacking in home-grown
forums.
> >
> > -Forums can be moderated to prevent a lot of the backlash and
unprofessional
> > behavior seen on mailing list and other forums.  Forums based on a
database
> > are easily searched and there would be sufficient storage to keep
libraries
> > and articles as well.  With 10x larger memberships on bulletin
> > boards/forums, it demonstrates a preference when compared to mailing
lists
> > and archives.  It also avoids the spam lists and security issues of
email
> > and USENET based lists.
> >
> > What I am proposing is to create a forum for the AGA, sanctioned by the
AGA,
> > for the promotion of planted aquaria.  I will volunteer the time, money
and
> > effort to startup the board.  The AGA would approve of the format before
> > sanctioning it for public access.
> >
> > Ultimate control and ownership of the forum would reside with the AGA
board
> > of directors, not with me personally.  In fact purchase of the web space
> > could be performed and maintained in the AGA's name.
> >
> > Moderators would be AGA members and if required could be appointed or
> > approved by the AGA board.  As required, non-members may be invited to
> > moderate specific topics such as fish:discus or fish:cichlids.  We may
even
> > be able to set vendor specific topics moderated by AGA sponsors.
> >
> > Topics would be similar to the AB board.  Plant and aquascaping topics
may
> > be more defined.  Topics such as the AGA conference or contest may be
added.
> > If the software allows, paying members could be given full access to
> > advanced topics which would be read-only to non-AGA members.  In
addition to
> > being value added, this may help to address the concerns of advanced
> > hobbyists who no longer want to get mired down in newbie questions.
Newbies
> > would be addressed by moderators and FAQ.
> >
> > Domain names are available such as;
> > Agaonline.net
> > Aga-online.org
> > Agaforums.com
> > Agaforums.net
> > Aga-forums.com
> > Aga-forums.net
> >
> > So what do you think?  Where should I go from here?
> >
> > James Hoftiezer
> > Senior Database Administrator
> > Advance America - Database Services
> > (864) 342-5558 (office)
> > JHoftiezer@AdvanceAmerica.net <mailto:JHoftiezer@AdvanceAmerica.net>
> > (864) 621-5720 (cell)
> > 8646215720@tms.suncom.com <mailto:8643166401@msg.myvzw.com>
> > (864) 580-5480 (fax)
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> Erik Olson
> erik at thekrib dot com
>
>

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