In soft water, almost all plants will eventually cause the pH to drift down. It's not just the plants that cause the pH to go down but the fact that they use CO2 and give off O2, use up ammonia and NH2 and NH3 in your tanks. I can't remember the actual chemical reactions but planted tanks lower your pH in soft water. A friend of mine who is really into planted tanks has had his pH drift down into the low 4's causing some acid burns on some of his plants. I use quite a few Aponogetons and Crypts in some of my planted apisto tanks. I try to stay away from swordplants as they really get too big for some of my 10 gallon breeder tanks. All the small bunch plants look awesome. Hygros, Cabombas, Myrophyllums, dwarf swords like Tenellus, Quadricostatus and Latafolias are neat plants to use. Ludwigias and Bacopa species are really sharp to use also. Now this brings me to a question I'm sure someone will raise. With quite a few of the plants I listed above you need some intense lighting to get them to grow, which you do, but I have not found the bright light to bother apistos. They just melt into the plants if they want a little cover. The myth that Apistos hate bright lights is not always true. I've found in some really heavily planted tanks the fish did really well. Hope this helps you out. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!