phil how about using a handful of dolomite? This will raise your pH without adding chemicals to your tank. I do this for my livebearer tanks, seeing as how I have such soft slightly acidic water. John W ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!