For those of you who replied earlier concerning the trouble I had with my shipment of Pandurinis (or should it be Panduros?), thank you. For those of you who missed the discussion of forgot about it, let me quickly recap to give a context for my newest problem: Last week I picked up a shipment of 6 Pandurinis (that is what they were labeled) that one after another died one after another, ~6 hours apart. They looked listless, struggled and eventually died. The feedback I got from the description I gave was that they probably died from ammonia build-up during the shipment. Newest problem: Last week I noticed that a Farowella (in long-time established, well-planted tank) I have had for ~ 3 years was looking bloated and was staying on the bottom corner. Eventually, it started to curl up on its side and wasn't moving much at all. At this point, not knowing what was wrong, I moved it to an isolation tank with the same water conditions. Not know anything about its breeding habits, I thought that it might be egg-laden at first. It became obvious after a few days that it was probably not the case. Before the Farowella died, a few of my Rams that used to share the same tank started acting strangely - listless and struggling. The Farowella, like the Panduros and, eventually, the Rams had stringy excess mucus about the mouth and gills. Over a period of ~3 days I lost 11 out of 13 of my prized Rams - all of my productive breeding stock. In addition to the the mucus, the Rams also had red striations on their under-bellies. According to what I have read, this indicates an internal bacterial infection. At the point where I had 5 Rams (2 of them noticeably in distress) and all of my 5 Veijitas left, I started treating the tank with Mardell Maracyn and Maracyn II antibiotics. I am only on the 3rd day of treatment and 1 male German Ram, 1 wild caught female, and all 5 of the original Veijitas have survived. Today I noticed, in yet another tank, that my original male and female triple red Cacatuoides and another female are acting strangely. They are hiding apart from each other and didn't move all day. They aren't guarding eggs either. I am concerned that this plague has somehow spread to a third tank. What do I do? From the responses I got from my earlier question, it seems that many of you are anti-drug. Aside from antibiotics, it seems the only course of action I have is to let the plague run its and afterward bleach sterilize my tanks and equipment and start over. What works? I salt helpful with Rams, like Africans? The main reason I originally posted to this group was to get help with the problem I had with losing the Pandurinis. Now I stand to lose all of my Apistos. If that happens, my time on this list may be short lived. I will stick with African Ciichlids and other, more robust fish. I have had a thriving 55 gallon African Cichlid tank with numerous kinds of fish for a long time now. I have only lost two fish in at the last 6 months. And that was solely due to the hunting prowess of my male Hap. Venustus - no parasites, no fish Ebola. I just declorinate my tap water and they are happy - I have the fry to prove it. I like a challenge, but I can't afford (financially or emotionally) to keep losing livestock like this. I have about had it. Any help and/or encouragement would be appreciated. - Chad ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!