I maybe am out of line here saying this, but doesn't everyone involved in this thread think the horse is dead and beating it anymore isn't going to solve any problems or questions. Pissing contest is over please, sorry ladies about my choice of expressions, but it is accurate to describe what's been going on. How about moving on to something new? Now could someone give me more info or experiences on Apisto Piauensis? My trio is strarting to really grow now and one of the females is starting to become a bit yellow, hopefully this is a good sign. Anyone who has worked with these guys and could give me some insights would be appreciated. John Wubbolt ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!