Re: egg eating was

[Frauley/Elson <fraulels@minet.ca>]

gkadar wrote:
> 
> Kyle wrote:
> 
> >If (stress if, I know of no proof either) both wild and comm. raised fish
> >(rams, kribs, what-have-you) exhibit this behaviour exclusively in aquaria.
> >There are a couple things that could be at play.  Fish which generally lay
> >200-300 eggs has no choice but to lay eggs when given the proper conditions
> >(water quality, suitable mate, etc.). Now given that fish finds itself in a
> >small glass cage (compared to the freedom of a boundless river or lake),
> >could we not hypothesize that the fish has assessed its surroundings and
> >deemed the physical area not suitable for the survival of itself, its mate
> >and 200-300 young.  <snip>
> 
> >From what I've seen on the Discovery channel I tend to agree with Kyle in
> some respects.  Whenever animals realize that their attempts to raise young
> will, in all likelihood, be futile, they eat them.  There was a graphic
> illustration of a mouse which, harried by a cat, consumed her youngsters and
> then escaped.  In this way the nutrients used up to make the babies were not
> wasted because the mouse had the nourishment within herself that otherwise
> would have been a snack for the cat.  With more nourishment, the mouse then
> had a better chance of breeding again and perhaps in a safer location.
> 
> Apparently this type of behaviour is quite widespread among animals and it's
> not a far-fetched extrapolation to include fish as well.  (Mother cats have
> been known to go 'overboard' licking their newborn kittens until they ended
> up becoming a meal.....Sheesh, in some parts of the world, human beings eat
> the placenta (of humans births, of course).......definitely not my idea of
> gourmet dining....O.K. guys, you still have your breakfasts in place????
> :) )
> 
> Gabriella

My breakfast is right there!
I think this makes perfect sense, but that our speculation does have a
bearing on how we keep fish. The original thread, way back when,  seemed
to be going to the respected 'fish raised in captivity don't learn to
parent' position. It remains complex, but I have problems with that
analysis. 
And I also have doubts that the reason for cannibalism of young across
species is to further future reproductive success. Lab rats that eat
their own feet under stress get protein, but they aren't gonna do too
well looking for love at the Saturday night dance.
I think we are on the same page that it's a response to environmental
stress, and maybe is less likely than 'aquarium orthodoxy' says it is to
be inbreeding. What I guess we'll never know is if it's an appropriate
response animals have evolved (eating to have better luck next time) or
an inappropriate response to life in a glass box (get stressed, kill the
fry, kill the other partner, and eat what you can while you're at it).
I guess it's philosophy (ack! as I watch Saturday morning cartoons) -
natural selection operates outside of the organism, mutation happens
within, and where the two meet make or may not appear logical in its
workings.
Whatever, it's cool to contemplate. It's also very hard to express in an
e-mail.
-Gary


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