Gary, Your friend's technique of eliminating exteranal stimuli from influencing his breeders is one that I tried with my Bolivian rams. A single pair inhabited a 30 gallon heavily planted tank which also contained all sorts of rocks etc. They ate several broods at the two week free-swimming stage. So next brood I removed the male, hoping that the female would consider that the 'chips are down' and what she's got is all she's ever going to get. No go. She ate her fry at the 2 week free-swimming stage. Next spawning I left in the male and covered the front of the tank with the comics section of the newspaper....hoping a little entertainment on the side (literally) and no stimulus from outside the tank would help. Nope. They ate them anyway. I didn't even peek for over a week. Last spawning, I removed the male as soon as spawning was completed because he turned into an abusive spouse. This time I covered the front of the tank with the 'Employment Opportunities' section of the paper........hint, hint.......again to no avail. I guess she didn't get the message. :) She's now on Unemployment Insurance benefits (clean water, good food and sharing space with Golden Firemouth youngsters who are now a bit bigger than she is.....mind you, they've had a major influence on her behaviour. They are so outgoing that she is no longer shy. Cichlid dithers for other Cichlids?) It wasn't as if they ate the broods because they were ready to spawn again because their cycle seems to be at least 8 weeks. Just ornery fish is all. The real pity of it is that the parents, except for the last time when he beat her up badly, were a model of cooperation. They took turns fanning eggs, picking up straggling fry, digging pits and moving wrigglers around. It was wonderful to discretely watch them at their well coordinated tasks. At this time the two are separated indefinitely. I may try again, but before I do, I want to breed my borellii in that tank. They seem to be much more consistent in regards to brood care. In crowded conditions they'll eat brood number one at the one month stage to make room for the next brood. Now that I can handle.....but it bothers me when parents eat the young ones before the little ones are old enough to be on their own. (A mother's viewpoint here.) My blue rams, regardless of temp, pH, water hardness, you name it.....spawn after spawn of fungused eggs. They didn't even seem to consume these with any enjoyment. Their behaviour while consuming the eggs was as though they had an obligation to do so and nothing more. Gabriella ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!