I had some wild caught Rams that had intestinal worms. They had 1-3 worms hanging, wriggling out their anuses. Like was mentioned earlier in the thread, I didn't notice it until I started feeding them well with live frozen foods. However, I have always had my suspicions that they got the parasites from a feeding of live black worms the first week I got them. Since then I have come to believe that live black worms should be completely avoided - they always seem to introduce nasty stuff to the tank. I never noticed eggs. In fact, I didn't have anything that would be a typical carrier in the tank - snails, etc. (except other fish). About the time I noticed the worms in the fish, I also noticed hundreds/thousands of tiny worms (just visible) wriggling on the front face of the aquarium glass. Soon after that all of the fish in the tank showed signs of the parasites. I tried using the recommended dosage of Clout and it seemed to work initially. However, I noticed that one of the fish was either still infested or re-infested. Next, I tried using Mardel CopperSafe at the recommended dosage for over 14 days. I monitored the copper level with a test kit in order to maintain the proper amount in the tank. That did the trick. A warning from my experience though: if you use a copper-based treatment in a planted tank, be prepared to lose the plants. I lost most of the plants I had in the tank that I treated. I guess that copper absorbs more readily in plants than iron. Without the iron, the plants thinned out and died. I have read and personally noticed that there is a risk of secondary infection in fish that are treated for parasites. I would recommend (once again from my experience - the experts may shoot me down for this) trying a product called Melafix. It is a concentrated tea-tree extract that acts as a natural anti-biotic and also helps to rapidly repair tissue damage. I have even started to use it when I first introduce new fish. I recently got a trio of archer fish. One had a large chomp out of its tail. The Melafix had the tail fully repaired in 4 days. It also has worked for me with helping to repair body wounds and a scraped eye on one of my African cichlids. Good luck, hope this helps. Chad ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!