I have found this with my krib and rams as well. I have a theory about it too ( prob. way off but it works for me 8-) ). Here in Australia I use my heaters from mid Autumn to mid Spring. When I use my heaters the temperature does not fluctuate very much ( stays around 27 degrees Celsius )and not much spawns ( except my convicts which would spawn in a bucket of water mid winter if they could ! ). When I don't use the heaters the temp can fluctuate a bit between day and night ( between almost 30 degrees Celsius on a hot day ) to about 23-24 at night ) reflecting more accurately what happens where they are naturally found. I guess most of these guys spawn in response to natural rhythms like flooding. And when it floods the water will invade more terra firma causing a flush of organic matter to decay thus acidifying the water in the shallows. It would also drop the temp and cause wider temp fluctuations because it is relatively shallow water. I'm prob wrong on this but it all makes sense to me. So when I want my fish to spawn I sometimes throw in some new wood which releases tannins into the water and slowly drops the ph and turn the heaters off to drop the temp a bit and let them experience more natural daily temp cycles. What do you reckon about this ? Regards, Simon http://thecichlidtank.cjb.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!