Hi Jerry Lots of replies to your post but I didn't see any that answered your first question very well. There are units that recycle waste water and produce a lot less waste to RO-water than 1:1. They are quite expensive so you're most likely better of with a good regular unit. I think Stuart got it a little backwards in his last two calculations but otherwise it was OK. I have a Aqua Medic 50g/day unit that has been working really well for over two years now. My tap water is soft (about 170-200 microSiemens) but I can't get better than something like 2:1-ratio. As I have it now it's 4:1 which means that my waste is about 210-250 microSiemens and still useful for most fish I have. To lower pH and keep it down I use peat. I have tried, and still use, phosphoric acid but IMHO peat works better and releases substances the fish like. I am starting to experiment with Oak Extract which a lot of Danish and German aquarists use. Regards Fredrik L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!