It's not apistos, but the Bolivian rams I've owned for about 2 years have consistently turned out to be absolutely lousy parents. During this time they have spawned consistently every month or so. I don't know if it's just my two pairs or if this is a problem with the species. Over the past two years I've tried every combination and permutation in having them raise a brood, to no avail. Two pairs together in a 30. One pair alone in a 30. Father removed after fry free swimming. Father removed at wriggler stage. Mother alone with newspaper wrapped around front and sides of tank. Move fish to a 65 long with a few A. cacatoides......move fish into a heavily planted lots of muck 54 gallon.......it's endless..... The other strange thing was that the fry, if they weren't cannibalized, always seemed to not eat. They just shrank away into nothingness. So this week-end I noticed that one of the pair had kiddies again. As soon as they were free-swimming, I (in sheer desperation now folks) syphoned out 6 youngsters (which was all that was left by Sunday evening). They looked like they were eating infusoria off plants and gravel and compared to previous broods, were quite lively. They are now in a heavily planted tank that was started up in the fall of 1996. And in the company of over 1000 12 day post spawn thick-lipped Gourami fry which don't seem too enthusiastic about dying off. (I just wish they'd start (the Gous) eating powdered flake and de-cap brine shrimp eggs, which a few of them do, the most of them don't.) The Bolivians are just totally 'out of it' parents. They would spin about at times and everything, gravel, muck, fry would go flying about. Then they'd swim off at least 10 inches away from the brood and leave them to their own devices. It's only when they are in the pit as wrigglers that they take turns constantly guarding. Once free-swimming, the fry are not tended diligently, although I noticed this time around the parents split the brood and some were on the other side of a piece of wood. Anyway, just a minor sort of semi-rant and observations about these rather frustrating fish. Gabriella Kadar Toronto ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://www.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!