Ok is there a defining characteristic to distinguish between rotpunkt and eunotus? My fish is either one or the other. I am leaning towards eunotus. I did get the LFS to order more of them. It was by mistake :-) They ordered cactuoides and got the fish that was sent as Sp. Sanser last time, I just find that hilarious. They also got "nijnensis" or some other awful spelling of nijsseni (sp?). They are awfully beaten up, but some females are starting to get yellow. At 3.95 I plan to buy most of them. I got the eunotus for 3.95 or 4.95 did not even pay attention. Actually I got the females I picked up tonight for 2.00 ;-) I love that shop. I now have three females of the eunotus and one big colorful male in my 125 he still harasses the females (he killed the last ones). I also have 3 cacatuoides (one big triple red male, and one female and a third that is a triple red with no black in the red that may be male or may be female). Do black pelvic fins signify a female in cacatuoides? Can I toss the nijsseni in with the other 5 in a 125 or will there be a turf war? What size tank for a group of nijsseni? Thanks in advance __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.