"I'm not picking sides to cause trouble..............really I'm not.............!!!!!" If I had a nickel for all the times you said that on the Apisto list I'd be a rich man Jacobs. But it's ok I know your true colors. Good night Meat Tits Dave :) --- Mike Jacobs <email@example.com> wrote: > .......................Youngker's in my > canoe.................that was the > damnest explanation I've ever seen. I've read it 4 > times and will have to > do it 2-3 more times and talk to our chemistry > teacher at school. I'm not > picking sides to cause trouble..............really > I'm not.............!!!!! > And all I wanted to do was grow some > foxtail.............just add another > fluorescent tube Mike..........heh, heh, > heh.........wow! Somewhere in > there I should be able to use differentiation or > integration to grow that > foxtail.................remember in there about > trying to divide by > zero...................I followed that.....;-) ;-) > ;-).....you know the > definition of a "black > hole"??????..................................it's > where God tried to divide by > zero...................... > > ...............I think we all ought to go to Java > moss................;-) > ;-) ;-) > > ....hey Big John........I didn't see anything about > "blue goop" in there. > did you!! > > Mike > > Mike Jacobs > Center for Advanced Technologies > High School Math Instructor > St. Pete, Fl. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David A. Youngker" <firstname.lastname@example.org> > To: "Apistogramma Mailing List" <email@example.com> > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:42 PM > Subject: Determining CO2 Concentrations in Natural > Waters > > > > > From: David Sanchez > > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 3:56 PM > > > > > I think you just don!'t understand the > relationship > > > between pH and carbonic acid... > > > > David - > > > > I'm afraid that it is you that has confused a few > issues. Let's see if we > > can walk through this in an academic manner and > arrive at some sort of > > "consensus", shall we? > > > > > KH and pH both determine the level of CO2 in a > > > body of water. This comes from a basic > > > understanding of the pH equation. > > > > There is no "pH equation", per se - only the > _definition_ of pH, which is > an > > inverse log of the actual *count* of hydrogen ions > in a solution. It's a > log > > scale because we're dealing with _huge_ numbers > here, and the numbers we > > _do_ use are in effect the *exponent* of the > value. > > > > The level of free hydrogen in the solution is > totally dependent upon what > > the various solutes _release_ into the solvent. > Since the most commonly > > found buffer in natural systems, from stream beds > to bloodstreams, is the > > bicarbonate ion, we usually have to look no > further than the dissociation > > constant of that ion to see how many hydrogen ions > it will provide. > > > > The formula you're probably thinking of is the > bicarbonate equilibrium > > described by the commonly-referenced > > > > H2CO3 <=> H+ + HCO3- > > > > which shows the products and reactants in relation > to the equilibrium > point. > > The actual point itself, determined through about > 150 years' of empirical > > data collected by analytical chemists, is > described as a ratio of products > > to reactants in a comparison of their creation > rates. When there are as > many > > hydrogen ions and bicarbonate ions being produced > as there are being > > consumed, we have achieved "equilibrium" around > the value > > > > ([H+][HCO3-])/ [H2CO3] = 4.3 x 10-7 > > > > Therefore, to determine the pH of the solution > involved, we solve this for > > the hydrogen concentration as > > > > [H+] = ([H2CO3][4.3 x 10-7]) / [HCO3-] > > > > which ties the hydrogen content to the ratio of > carbonic acid- to- > > bicarbonate ions. > > > > This gives us a starting point for the rest of the > conversation. > > > > > This whole buffer solution system is so > misunderstood > > > by many hobbyists in my opinion. Why will pH > fluctuate, > > > just because we have a KH of 0 do we assume the > pH will > > > simply bounce all over the place? > > > > If you're using bicarbonates as the predominant > buffer, then that puts KH, > > carbonate hardness, or alkalinity (or whatever the > popular hobby term is > > presently) right square in the denominator of the > above ratio. What > happens > > when you try to divide by zero? (By the way, since > the charts on Erik's > site > > is based on the Hendersen-Hasselbach equilibrium > you'll find that same > > "divide by zero" problem as the reason the charts > break down at the > > extremes. A zero in the denominator also > represents reaction > *completion*.) > > > > > The relationship of KH to pH, is not if we have > 0 KH > > > then we no longer have a !'buffer!( this is a > incorrect > > > way of looking at this... > > > > It is _not_ the incorrect way of looking at this - > it _is_ the *only* way > to > > look at this. The "KH" is THE primary natural > buffer within the equation. > So > > if you have no buffering agent, you can have no > buffering. There _are_ > other > > buffers at work in our Apisto tanks down at the > ranges we work on, and > their > > related to the humics most of us introduce through > peat/tannin filtering > > > > > A high KH will help maintain a Higher pH and > vice > > > versa a low KH (for example a 0 KH)will help > maintain > > > a lower pH... > > > > A buffering agent is one that absorbs or lessens a > stressor applied to the > > system. In this case, the stressor is the > concentration of hydrogen, which > > in our tanks is usually on the rise thanks to the > processes of > > nitrification. > > > > Buffers are established with a combination of an > acid and its salt or a > base > > and its salt. In this case, the carbonic is the > acid and the bicarbonates > > are its base salt. The difference between the two > is the added hydrogen, > > which turns HCO3- into H2CO3. It is the "change of > state" in capturing or > > releasing the hydrogen that provides the > buffering. If there is an influx > of > > hydrogen through, say, acids, then the product > side of the equation > relieves > > the added pressure by combining the hydrogen with > a bicarbonate to produce > > carbonic. If we destroy the hydrogen through, say, > the === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, firstname.lastname@example.org. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email email@example.com.