Re: Determining CO2 Concentrations in Natural Waters

[David Sanchez <barbax2@yahoo.com>]

Relax Jacobs. I said that in jest note the smile :).
Your counting. Please. If I was to go through the
Apisto archives and count all the times you have
attacked me. Would you like some cheese with your
wine.

THE DAVE



--- mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com wrote:
> ......OK list, I'll ignor this......but I am
> counting........sorry!
> 
> Mike
>  
> 
> 
> > "I'm 
> > not
> > picking sides to cause trouble..............really
> I'm
> > 
> > not.............!!!!!"
> > 
> > If I had a nickel for all the times you said that
> on
> > the Apisto list I'd be a rich man Jacobs. But it's
> ok
> > I know your true colors.
> > 
> > Good night Meat Tits
> > 
> > Dave :)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- Mike Jacobs <mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > > .......................Youngker's in my
> > > canoe.................that was the
> > > damnest explanation I've ever seen.  I've read
> it 4
> > > times and will have to
> > > do it 2-3 more times and talk to our chemistry
> > > teacher at school.  I'm not
> > > picking sides to cause
> trouble..............really
> > > I'm not.............!!!!!
> > > And all I wanted to do was grow some
> > > foxtail.............just add another
> > > fluorescent tube Mike..........heh, heh,
> > > heh.........wow!  Somewhere in
> > > there I should be able to use differentiation or
> > > integration to grow that
> > > foxtail.................remember in there about
> > > trying to divide by
> > > zero...................I followed that.....;-)
> ;-)
> > > ;-).....you know the
> > > definition of a "black
> > >
> hole"??????..................................it's
> > > where God tried to divide by
> > > zero......................
> > > 
> > > ...............I think we all ought to go to
> Java
> > > moss................;-)
> > > ;-) ;-)
> > > 
> > > ....hey Big John........I didn't see anything
> about
> > > "blue goop" in there.
> > > did you!!
> > > 
> > > Mike
> > > 
> > > Mike Jacobs
> > > Center for Advanced Technologies
> > > High School Math Instructor
> > > St. Pete, Fl.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "David A. Youngker"
> <nestor10@mindspring.com>
> > > To: "Apistogramma Mailing List"
> <apisto@listbox.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:42 PM
> > > Subject: Determining CO2 Concentrations in
> Natural
> > > Waters
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > > From: David Sanchez
> > > > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 3:56 PM
> > > >
> > > > > I think you just don!'t understand the
> > > relationship
> > > > > between pH and carbonic acid...
> > > >
> > > > David -
> > > >
> > > > I'm afraid that it is you that has confused a
> few
> > > issues. Let's see if we
> > > > can walk through this in an academic manner
> and
> > > arrive at some sort of
> > > > "consensus", shall we?
> > > >
> > > > > KH and pH both determine the level of CO2 in
> a
> > > > > body of water. This comes from a basic
> > > > > understanding of the pH equation.
> > > >
> > > > There is no "pH equation", per se - only the
> > > _definition_ of pH, which is
> > > an
> > > > inverse log of the actual *count* of hydrogen
> ions
> > > in a solution. It's a
> > > log
> > > > scale because we're dealing with _huge_
> numbers
> > > here, and the numbers we
> > > > _do_ use are in effect the *exponent* of the
> > > value.
> > > >
> > > > The level of free hydrogen in the solution is
> > > totally dependent upon what
> > > > the various solutes _release_ into the
> solvent.
> > > Since the most commonly
> > > > found buffer in natural systems, from stream 
> beds
> > > to bloodstreams, is the
> > > > bicarbonate ion, we usually have to look no
> > > further than the dissociation
> > > > constant of that ion to see how many hydrogen
> ions
> > > it will provide.
> > > >
> > > > The formula you're probably thinking of is the
> > > bicarbonate equilibrium
> > > > described by the commonly-referenced
> > > >
> > > > H2CO3 <=> H+ + HCO3-
> > > >
> > > > which shows the products and reactants in
> relation
> > > to the equilibrium
> > > point.
> > > > The actual point itself, determined through
> about
> > > 150 years' of empirical
> > > > data collected by analytical chemists, is
> > > described as a ratio of products
> > > > to reactants in a comparison of their creation
> > > rates. When there are as
> > > many
> > > > hydrogen ions and bicarbonate ions being
> produced
> > > as there are being
> > > > consumed, we have achieved "equilibrium"
> around
> > > the value
> > > >
> > > > ([H+][HCO3-])/ [H2CO3] = 4.3 x 10-7
> > > >
> > > > Therefore, to determine the pH of the solution
> > > involved, we solve this for
> > > > the hydrogen concentration as
> > > >
> > > > [H+] = ([H2CO3][4.3 x 10-7]) / [HCO3-]
> > > >
> > > > which ties the hydrogen content to the ratio
> of
> > > carbonic acid- to-
> > > > bicarbonate ions.
> > > >
> > > > This gives us a starting point for the rest of
> the
> > > conversation.
> > > >
> > > > > This whole buffer solution system is so
> > > misunderstood
> > > > > by many hobbyists in my opinion. Why will pH
> > > fluctuate,
> > > > > just because we have a KH of 0 do we assume
> the
> > > pH will
> > > > > simply bounce all over the place?
> > > >
> > > > If you're using bicarbonates as the
> predominant
> > > buffer, then that puts KH,
> > > > carbonate hardness, or alkalinity (or whatever
> the
> > > popular hobby term is
> > > > presently) right square in the denominator of
> the
> > > above ratio. What
> > > happens
> > > > when you try to divide by zero? (By the way,
> since
> > > the charts on Erik's
> > > site
> > > > is based on the Hendersen-Hasselbach
> equilibrium
> > > you'll find that same
> 
=== message truncated ===


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