Well Im happy now I have to admit that i find it very comforting to know others out there are suffering the same as I am..... lol.... Misery does love company.. !!! Now on to a good note..... Crossing posts here a bit i guess from the SACSG.... My MacMasters family is just that .... a family now!! I removed the second pair from the "Quarantine Tank" that became a breeding tank.... lol.. and Mama Mac has a bunch of kids.... not a lot, but around 20 i think.... Nice little bunch of wigglers! My second smaller pair had to be abruptly moved into a tank with some Nanacara Taenia or they would have been killed.... and it wasnt Daddy doing the chasing but Mom..... shes just a little bigger then dad... but who cares ... he'll catch up in size soon enough... Im just happy he knows what to do! ON a sad note.... my rams ate all their wigglers. That dreaded Ram curse strikes me again!! New York Johnny...And Randy Carey.... I am much closer to the North Pole then you are. Theres an amusement park 40 miles away called the North Pole... its on the way up the mountain heading to Whiteface Mountain... the official Olympic mountain of the 1980 winter games in Lake Placid.... so there ...!!!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.