Rich, I don't know if you live near Northeast Philly or not but, I have 4 pair of the Wilds that sound just like what you are talking about. The store I know that has them happen to get them from a guy I know. They are one of the most interesting Apistos I've seen so far. I've only really been seriously into the dwarfs for about a year but, as for natural characteristics they are great. No, they don't have all the pretty colors that we are use to seeing in our Tank raised fish. But, if you had them at home and just watch their activity it's a blast. Yes, I'm talking real Wild Cacatuoides(AKA cockatoo) when they go after black worms or anything else, They Go After it. After having them in the Aquarium for a couple days they start to color up. Some yellow in some faces and belly. I just had my first grandbaby fish today. It was a triple red cacatuoides. A real classic looking type. I intend to Use the male in this case to breed with the Wild. The male is young enough that the offspring from that hatch can be breed back. Hopefully I will end up with a colored up version what your use to but, only with some of the original qualities in tact. I'm certainly not a scientist but, I love my fish and I like the exploration part. Well, as far as my fishroom is concerned. Don't think you'll see me in a river in Peru up to my waist in water and mud. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the Apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.